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One final attempt to terrify all those who plan on voting for Syriza into submission, or....
h/t insidegame
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What am I looking at?
I see the bit about Post Euro Drachma, but what is this?
Should be fairly obvious, no?
Vote Syriza = get Drachma.
Epic get.
It's getting real obvious to us ZH readers that the end of the financial system the way we've known it, is near.
I think that's called a paradigm shift, eh?
Fight Club rules! Keep it up, Tyler.
Drachma is the first stage. Then they drop down to gold. And, finally, barter.
They are alredy in barter mode: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12223068
Anybody with gold has probably already hit the high road.
Tyler? You mean WS! They are the mad hatters of this ball. Tyler is just the lucid, intelligent fly on the wall!
The day the Fly takes over the world is not tomorrow! Those Oligarchs are mean guys, fight club or no tits and giggles club.
The Paradigm Shift actually occurred in 2000. It was noticed by certain carbon lifeforms who were responsible for the start of gold's rise.
I logged in just to +1 that comment.
So true. And tip o' the hat to ZH and its faithful for cutting through the bs daily. Without it, I would surely be insane by now.
EscapeKey, Tyler, Syriza is positioning itself firmly in the pro-EUR camp - vote SYRIZA = stay in eurozone
ZH has published a Spiegel interview (here) with Syriza's Alexis Tsipras where he was quite clear:
"...SPIEGEL: Is that the complete truth? Even Alekos Alavanos, your old mentor and the former Syriza floor leader in parliament, has called on you to finally be honest with your fellow Greeks.
Tsipras: Alavanos left the party some years ago because he didn't share our conviction about remaining within the euro zone. It's fairly odd that I now have to justify myself for the fact that we -- like the vast majority of the population, incidentally -- want to stay within the euro association..."
Ghordius,
What stops Greece or any other nation from staying in the Eurozone but out of the Monetary Union?
And look at that.
European Monetary Union.
EMU
THIS BIRD WAS NEVER MEANT TO FLY!
;-)
ori
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone
Same thing ORI. It's all a little confusing, maybe by intent.
Thanks Gene. What then UK's super-special status? They got the Pound(ing) but are in the EMU?
ori
the UK is in europe (51 countries) and in (the 27 countries club called) European Union (EU) but not in (the 17 countries club called) EMU (european monetary union or also called eurozone - using the EUR).
They are part of the single market that's here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU
GBP allows them the 'privilege' of devaluing through QE. Somehow in this backwards world of ours that is now considered an advantage. The same way a scorpion stings itself to death when surrounded by fire: "Ha-ha!" says the scorpion "I can simply kill myself!"
The joke is on you, fire.
That is a fallacy... scorpions do not sting themselves to death when surrounded by fire.
if you pour 150 proof alchohol on their backs, they supposedly sting themselves to death too.
ORI, explain to me why Greece has to leave the monetary union in order to default, restructure it's debt or any other thing. BTW, Greece is already paying 20% of it's tax incomes for debt service, and it's internationally understood that this is the limit.
Ghordius, being only an observer and that too from afar, all I know is that
a) Greek Debt is un-payable (like amny other countries too, but Greece has major structural issues, now political issues etc.)
b) ECB/IMF style austerity is a death blow for any country. THey can take a healthy nation down in a blik (or a year or three)
c) News from the ground (not all true, but nto all false) paints Greeks in a very poor position
d) Germany seems hell-bent on "Getting" greece, by their Gold or some other sovereign exchange.
Why would Greece WANT to stay in the EU?
It's a fucked up concept, totally un-workable anyways.
ori
ORI, a good answer would need at least three pages...
a) un-payable debt is a point of view when currencies are involved, particularly if the denomination currency is being devalued. The UK never defaulted but took 75 years to pay back the Napoleonic Wars debt of 180% of GDP - in gold.
b) austerity? is debatable. Ask the question this way: "is living within your means the right thing to do?" and see who answers what.
c) after defending Greece since a while: please note that Greece was never in a good position, even when the Squid cooked their books
d) don't believe the propaganda: Germany is "stern" and "principled", not "mean" or "vindicative" towards Greece. They are misunderstood. On purpose, of course.
Greece is, for all purposes, a multi-party democracy. Would you vote for a party that wants your wages to decrease 30% to 50% in a frigging year? That is what for the common man on the Greek street the Drachma introduction would mean. And he knows.
ORI, for the Greeks, the EUR is "the next best thing to gold" - in fact it's behaving in their economy as if it were gold, i.e. as if Greece would be in the 19th Century.
logged in just to +1 this comment.
Syriza is pro EU.
What the author probably had in mind was: golden dawn.
Those are far left nationalist willing to exit the EU. Syriza's young leader said many times he wanted to stay in EU zone...
And since I'm going against the grain of most readers that are convinced about all facets the EUR propaganda coming from "you know where", even when contradictory and blatantly false, I'd like to point to an excellent opinion piece coming from "black swan" Nassim Taleb:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-30/taleb-says-euro-breakup-not-a-b...
"Europe’s lack of a centralized government works in its favor, he said.
“The best thing Europe ever did is managing to have members bickering with each other, so you don’t have the big government,” Taleb said. “Centralized government doesn’t work. In Europe they tried to have a powerful Brussels, but what happens when you have a powerful Brussels? You have lobbies hijacking Brussels.”
1. I'm still not convinced that the eurozone is going to break up
2. even if it was going to break up and give many bankers a lot of opportunities and bonuses with the churn on the previous currencies, a currency grid II or III would be quite likely, soon
3. the EUR, for all it's faults, has no "national pride" attached to it, not even faces or real items or places. You could argue that it's made to be shelved without a tear. But we are way off this scenario, at the moment.
4. the reasons for the EUR are still there - it's purpose too (nope, not "domination" things, it's "protection from the vagaries of the global reserve currency and it's super-charged speculation waves".
Suit yourself
That did not answer the question though. For those of us not familiar with this software, some context would be appreciated.
some joker thought it would be better to have the software prepared for the "post EUR" Drachma, that's all (my take)
banking operations guys like to be prepared and I would not be astonished if in London you can already make bets (eventually paid with taxpayer money, of course) that are already denominated in Drachmas...
the "it's to force the Greeks not to vote Syriza" is of course wrong, but since half of the financial world has no clue about this completely overblown issue with Greece it has propaganda value. say something often enough and loud enough and eventually it will be perceived as true by the masses - paraphrased from Dr. Goebbels, chief propagandist of the Nazis.
Taleb owns Euros by the way.
thanks. yes, the dear doctor was a real pro. as some of his disciples of our days.
Taleb understands how exactly his EURs would fare if for any reasons the eurozone would break up - something most don't...
As if voting matters.
"it is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." - mark twain
Not all of us are economists. I would also like to know where that Drachmna (Post Euro) line in the picture came from. Like... who put it there? Why is it even there? Right now... there is no drachma... right? So why is there a Drachma in the picture?
Because it's a challenge to war. That's it, that's all. Nothing special. It's happened before and will happen again.
It's the futures market Apeman, but not as we know it!
crickey!
A cat/bag seperation moment, surely?
this cat could not escape any bag... it could only be released intentionaly..
take with a pinch of salt
Wilco.
I'll take my salted cat that's killed two birds and run it up the ducks in a line to see who grabs the hot potato whilst sitting on the last straw.
In Ireland, the Sheeple have spoken!
Syriza or financial fascism Greece. Take your pick.
it's just a side show, the real show is @ J.P. Morgen and @ Chorizo!!
Finally Greece gives the middle finger to the Euro or is it vice versa?....well who gives a flying shit. "It's all been done woo hoo its all been done before."
there has be an eliment of scare mongering to this.. why else would they make the instrument available in advance?
negotiation tactics
Burrusso and Van Rumpoy woken early from bed today, every finger in the dyke to maintain "stability" and what was it, "forging an ever closer Europe"
(cough, splutter)
EURUSD 1.2324 / 1.2326
that is all....
bullish for Euro exports
do they have oil in europe?
Europe doesn't produce anything but inbred royalty and some C grade cuisine. It's too bad, they had so much potential, too bad they all die waiting for the government to save them.
I understand Polio and the Plague is making a come back in Greece now as well.
I think you're referring to the UK, which as it stands, is not Europe or at least the distinction between the continentals and the Treasure Island should be made.
Europe produces plenty including oil if you include Norway. Norway is also the only country that can finance itself by the way yet, incidentally, has a monarchy but stays egalitarian.
Wait until it's taken over. Europeans are good at invading each other, not much else. You think Norway won't be crushed like a bug? Nothing a Neutron bomb won't cure, get rid of the people and keep the well stocked resources.
Question is will it be Russia, US or China that the skulls get crushed under?
Apocalyptic. While I can understand that that is what you've come to expect from NATO, I respectfully disagree.
I advise to take a second look at your worldview.
Why would anyone be that important in Norway? You are assuming that these folks running the show actually value human life, equality, hope, faith, courage...has that been the picture painted ATM?
No, it is not. Like the last, million times human leaders have been greedy little pigs. It'll be taken by hook or crook.
So if hoping that being a well organized awesome country with an energy source is a deterrent, that's too bad. Hardly apocalyptic, consider it a change in management and there won't be a damn thing anyone can do about it. Think the Baltic states once under the thumb of Russia viewed their visitors as liberators?
Hardly.
Access Restriced to its supplier.
i still can't work out who are going to take the initial issue of Drachmas and swap them for their Euros???
like you know they're going to be torched (devalued) by 20-30% as soon as they go on sale.. they'll be like hot potatoes for weeks!!!
Seems like a good place to drop this:
http://maxkeiser.com/2012/05/31/kr295-keiser-report-with-hugo-salinas-pr...
in case some Greeks are interested.
LMAO..."POST EUR"
Hollywood couldn't do a better job with the apocalyptic reference.
Greece is the posteur child.
Post EUR sounds like the Euro would be terminated. But what can you do with only 7 letters...
If I was Greece, I would announce that the drachma would be initially valued at 1 drachma to 1 Euro.
All outstanding debt will be paid in drachma at this initial exchange rate.
Then, let the devaluation begin.
Irrelevant, I think.
It's not like they have a ton of savings... I think some article here 2-3 weeks ago correctly observed - why wait to get drachmas? Only an idiot would do that.
And the same goes for the future Spanish drachma or whatever - this ought to start a currency run :-)
I wonder when it will become possible to short the new and improved drachma?
Why would the Drachma, which is going to be printed out of thin air, have any less value than a Euro printed out of thin air?
All depends how they manage the currency... My guess is they will probably not have the discipline the Germans have which will water down the currency which will lead to inflation.... It's going to be an absolute mess as the issue is living within ones means, which no one in the developed world seems to be able to do....
A hard asset like gold is the only way to keep the politicians hands out of the cookie jar
And there it is again. Oppression through inflation hidden in plain sight.
Fraud so large no one in the developed world can deal with it. Savers and monitarily responsible punished too.
END INCORPORATED RACKETEERING BY "BANKS"
Bingo. These are politico's handling things...they don't know about the massive reevaluation.
Kind of like telling a boomer ten years ago their home's value is going to collapse, you would have been called a liar. They've only had a bull market their entire lives. They don't know what a collapse looks like and it will more than likely kill them.
The future is glum for the human race, for the planet, it will keep on keepin on.
That's what I said: why wait to get drachmas, even at par.
So, who cares what's the exchange rate going to be, get the he'll out of the euro now.
It hardly makes a difference x 1, div 0.5342, x 666. It's not as if there's many deposits, contracts or salaries to convert.
Thx God is weekend, on Monday everything will be fixed!
Monday is holiday for Greece so nothing'll change!
With the unemployment rate in Greece, everyday's a holiday.
10yr made a new low overnight at 1.529%. I'll bet BB isn't sleeping too well.
We should hurry up,before drachma comes!! www.imalakas.com/debt-for-sale.html
Greece had issued three silver coins in the 60's. One contained one fifth of an ounce in silver, the other one third and the largest almost half an ounce of clean silver. It's a pity the Greeks have been selling these on Ebay and to private dealers rather than keeping them to enable commerce between individuals to continue.
Silver coinage could have been a stroke of genius for the Greek economic system if in fact there was at least one gnius in parliament.
Mr. Salinas-Price agrees with you. Skip to second half of the program:
http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/episode-295-max-keiser/
Who are they trying to fool. They keep telling us that tiny Greece could bring the system undone, whilst on the other hand they tell us there can be no Euro without the mighty Germany. Is there are something I am missing or have THEY missed something? if Europe cannot be Europe without a solvent Greece and a mighty Germany then it seems that the whole concept was a fraudulent facade to begin with which they hoped would somehow fall into place as they went along.
Greece is not the bomb, just the detonator ( debtornator?)
I would love to see the price...
Nice...
http://www.businessinsider.com/cramer-were-screwed-2012-6
No use having its own currency unless old habits change.
Nothing what so ever :)
By voting Syriza all the Greeks have to lose is their bankster chains.
hard to tell drinking Wild Turkey 101 and a beer chaser all night and still up
It's still all Greek to me.
Greece: Corzined, 2012. RIP.
what is that?
Q&A on the European Debt Redemption Fund
http://www.cnhedge.com/thread-6595-1-1.html
Cramer put it in there. Hi Mom.
Just Bloomberg testing for the 'contingency'?
http://www.businessinsider.com/xgd-greek-drachma-bloomberg-2012-6
(Even if so, what a cockup letting it onto trading screens...)