Where Are We Now? A Comparative Timeline Approach

Tyler Durden's picture

Let's assume that the statement "its never different this time" is there for a reason, and is fundamentally correct. In which case this time is just like some other previous time. Furthermore, considering that the underlying reasons for the Great Financial Crisis of 2007 never went away but merely saw their symptoms masked by trillions of dollars in monetary and fiscal stimulus, it is safe to say that what is currently happening in Europe, accompanied by financial failures in the US, is merely a continuation of that epic collapse that started all the way back in 2007 with the failure of New Century. And since history always rhymes, and all too often it is easy to ignore the big picture of the past, we would like to remind readers of precisely what the key events in the first great collapse were, transpose these to the present, and attempt to predict the future. The questions are: who is next, when, where and how. To help us with the answer, here is a brief history of two timelines...

Here is the compare and contrast courtesy of South of Wall Street:

  • April 2007 | New Century goes down  SEC Filing 
  • June 2007 |  Bear Stearns suspends redemptions from its High-Grade Structured Credit Strategies Enhanced Leverage Fund  - (With that name, who put money in this thing? Enhanced Leverage...) 
  • July 2007 |  Bear Stearns liquidates said funds U.S. Bankruptcy Filing -
  • August 2007 | Countrywide borrows the entire $11.5 billion available in its credit lines with other banks. Fitch Ratings downgrades &    SEC Filing
  • January 2008 | Countrywide goes down - BofA 'buys' them
  • February 2008 | Northern Rock goes down UK Treasury Release  
  • March 2008 | Bear Stearns goes down - JPM 'buys' them  Federal Reserve Press Release
  • July 2008 |  SEC bans naked short selling in the securities of Fannie, Freddie, and banks SEC Press Release
  • September 2008 | Fannie and Freddie are wiped out 
  • September 2008 | Lehman goes down - Merrill is 'bought' buy BofA
  • September 2008 | SEC bans on short selling in the stocks of all companies in the financial sector PR
  • September 2008 | All types of facilities, guarantees, and swap lines are extended (TAF, AMLF) 
  • September 2008 | JPMorgan 'buys' Washington Mutual
  • October 2008 | Wells Fargo 'buys' Wachovia 
  • October 2008 | TARP comes to life  H.R. 1424 | Public Law

Where are we now?

  • February 2010 |  EU and Greece reach austerity plan
  • April 2011 | Portgual asks for a bailout
  • October 2011 | Greece 'haircut' ruled voluntary - MF Global Goes Down - CDS now meaningless
  • December 2011   |  Greek default no longer the world's focus as Italy collapses
  • January 2012 | Greece defaults
  • March 2012 | Germany to leave the EU
  • June 2012 |  French banks fail - French yields soar as bond auctions fail

This WSJ timeline is worth considering as we are now 18 months into the 'crisis'.

Europe is no different than the US housing bubble that lead to the subsequent credit crisis.  It was fairly straight forward that the housing mess would end poorly.  However, it played out slowly ... until it didn't.  The housing collapse and ensuing credit collapse were the most well documented events that no one was prepared for.... until Europe.

MF Global and Greece are NOT going to be the end of this story, they're the New Century or Bear Hedge Funds of this collapse.  We're just beginning.  Are you prepared?

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
lolmao500's picture

Well Italy is on the verge. In less than 8 hours (at 9.30AM EST) there will be a crucial vote on the Italian budget. If it fails, Berlusconi falls.

Germany to leave the EU

Not gonna happen. All German politicians are corrupt to the bone.

baten's picture

All GERMAN politicians are corrupt to the bone?


Popo's picture

At some point, the interests of the politicians will be better served leaving the EU rather than staying.   Politicians are always among the first rats off a sinking ship -- and Europe is taking on water fast.

For the time being, centralized power and stability from Brussels is a sweet temptation to politicians wrestling with their own national problems.   But as it becomes increasingly clear that the dream of a unified Europe is collapsing, and that events are spiraling rapidly out of anyone's control -- politicians in all countries will *desperately* seek to put distance between themselves and the failed management team in Belgium.  (Who in their right mind would lash their careers to the mast of Von Rumpuy's sinking ship?)

Public anger will increasingly be directed at "Europe" -- and nationalism will go vertical.  

For the time being, a small handful of Eurocrats are the only ones left in Europe who still believe that the European dream is possible. And their numbers are shrinking fast. From a populist perspective, Europe is (and always was) a group of warring tribes that can't stand one another.  When the shit hits the fan,  even formerly euro-centric politicians will play that card -- as it will be the only card left to play.

Voluntary Exchange's picture

It is encouraging that political factions in both Europe and America can see the coming crash. How can a blood bath be avoided?

Cooperation is the key to all levels of human endeavor and leads to prosperity, peace, and well being. Execution of a solution will fail unless you get past the same 666 ton dinosaur which continues to destroy voluntary exchange and voluntary cooperation everywhere on this planet, and that dinosaur is government in its present form.

Almost everywhere  in the West now, if you attempt to employ those with low value skills, (sadly most recent college graduates in America today or the legions of the uneducated, who both lack practical experience), you will discover that you are prevented in doing so by the fact that too high costs will cause you to fail. You would destroy more wealth than you would create if you attempted to do so. The reason this is so is that the cost to employ them or even to try self-employment as a strategy are too great: either due to minimum wage laws, and/or because of mountains of regulations and/or license requirements, and especially because of taxes. 

So political camps could agree on many things, but until the underlying problems caused by that "dinosaur" are changed the economy will not improve but continue towards collapse. Governments destroy market ecosystems. Market ecosystems are how human civilizations survive and thrive. 

It is encouraging that those who lack the understanding of how wealth is created, (both on the "left" and the "right"), at least see large amounts of wealth being stolen and given to those with the most wealth. This happens as a natural result of the problems just cited above. More and more, the ones able to make a "profit", (not the same as creating wealth when a government can inflate the currency and corrupt the meaning of "profit"), are those who can overcome the high costs of taxes, regulations, inflation, and wage laws. Such "winners" have enough resources to meet each of these burdens, often because they also have enough "money" and power to employ government to their advantage and to prevent less affluent or less powerful parties from entering the market ecosystem. As things are, government will continue to attempt to grow as it always does, but even those with wealth and power begin to see that the system must crash soon. 

We seem to be at the point that wealth, (things you NEED and things you want): the basis for life and well being, is being destroyed so quickly now in both America and W. Europe that those who can do so are in the final stages of preparing a place of safety from the coming storm and the rest are just waking up to how bad things are getting. The solution is voluntary exchange but you have to do something about that dam "dinosaur" or you will DIE! I hope "we" choose life and not death.

The more powerful human technology becomes, the more essential it becomes to avoid concentrating power in the hands of the "few". The ultimate dispersion of power would be ultimate "self" government: each person as sovereign.  The ultimate way to disperse power is to never attempt to concentrate it to begin with.  A free market "ecosystem" is the closest that we can come to total dispersion of power, thus we must move to voluntary exchange and non-aggression in all aspects of "government" - meaning free market ecosystems in adjudication/arbitration/law and free markets ecosystems in defense/insurance/enforcement.  


We are running out of time. I don't want to live in another stone age.  We can cooperate or we can choose to enforce our selfish will upon others who do not agree with us through political power. The first way leads to life, the other leads to death and misery. If we do not choose cooperation soon very many will die. 

CPL's picture

Mike Ruppert has some good resources on the subject on how to organise communities and it's being done in rural situations.  The cities however are going to be a different animal all together.  I even think he pops on here once in a while, but he's fairly busy with his projects.


So what if a large swathe of the human population is sentenced to live under some retarded ruling block.  Stay in the country, find a good community and work in that environment.  Right now, saving humanity isn't the problem, we've got people coming out of our ears.

Voluntary Exchange's picture


"Saving humanity isn't the problem"

How much one person values a particular human life is of course subjective. I feel much richer when people are alive and even more rich when they are living enjoyable, "decent" lives. But then that is me.

I hope you feel that saving YOUR life, at least for now, is valuable to you.  I hope you agree that most people might feel that continuing their lives is important to themselves.  In fact people who want to stay alive have been know to do desparate things! 

The more desparate people get, the more destructive they can be.  I wish you success if you are focused on going somewhere where the mob can't get at you. Once you get there, if you can not cooperate with your new neighbors you will ultimately fail. The desire to impose one groups will upon another through force and through political means seems near universal at the moment. Your safe haven can turn into a hell in a heartbeat. I think you will discover in time "he who saves his life will loose it" but then that could have some kind of deep esoteric meaning that we may not understand.

The state of technology is such that the desparate or ignorant can "reach out and touch you" in so many ways even if you work very hard to prevent it. Fukashima fallout is touching almost everyone on this planet now. That is a tragedy and the ignorance of how to have abundant, safe, clean, and inexpensive power is also tragic.

We have a shortage of certain types of people! A shortage of those who understand and are being permitted to create wealth. IF your sole mission is preserving you loved ones lives without regard to helping others then will you be creating wealth and well-being or burying what you have in a cave some where?  For you maybe it might come down to life and death.  Will you not try first to teach your neighbor how to be wealthy? Enjoy the world that you help to create.   


CPL's picture

I am not my brother's keeper in that light.  Few are willing to entertain the idea of moving back into the age of steam, so there is simply nothing to be done about it.  And forcing people to accept a concept of even modest change is not palatable for most.  That horizon of change is now closer than it was three years ago, pardon 4 years ago from the first death rattle in 2007.

So if there was a concern to educate and place information in the hands of the public, that point is long well past.  Short of kidnapping, the acceptance of a massive human culling is all anyone can do.  As you've mentioned Fukashima, yes, between that, bee colonies collapsing, an over abundance of arts majors and fewer hands that can actually build, develop and maintain the systems required for a person's daily affairs (currently).  Most people that you will see today will eventually get caught in that trap of obliviousness that requires the blinders are fully covering their eyes, hearts and minds.

I already am in a comfortable place and working with my neighbours and fellow villagers.  Most of us have been very busy establishing a strong community with general improvements to poorly thought out government approved solutions.  Out of the 8000 or so of us, the only ones that can't craft are the older citizens of our town where time and arthritis has taken their hands along with their faculties.  So here we are nearly four year after the fact, the horn was blown, and 99.999% stayed completely unaware of the nonsense being done behind their backs.

For our small town the wake up call was the closure of not one, but all manufacturing facilities, town hall meeting was called and history was explained.  The general employment in the area has obviously fallen, it was a decision by our local council to start mapping the requirements for what we needed as an area.  Some shuffling, redevelopment of some abandoned stone homes and ancient warehouses build in the 1800's and reeducation on how to build without power tools was set up.  I am an engineer by trade, but as my town option I selected carpenter, although I am thinking of stone mason is the next thing I would like to accomplish.  We have nurses, doctors, electricians, a couple of geothermal specialists that are here as well, plus everyone farms to some extent.  There are a couple of lazy shits that are in town and have been on welfare for multi generations that aren't taking part, but the folly and risk is theirs to take.

While I was put on this earth to give help to those that I am associated with, even lend a hand to a stranger.  I was not put here to save the entire planet, especially those that have no interest in performing the most basic tasks of life.  I could point to a million and one reasons as to why people would sell themselves short and avoid their basic responsibilities to their own communities and themselves.  But why bother, the human race as far as I'm concerned is happy amusing itself to death, they would gladly give their left nut to have that "car", "shoes", kids, house, etc. 

The elusive thing that drives them to swallow from the trough of life like greedy swine, eating everything with no expectations of return if only to be slaughtered for their poorly lived lives.  I have no sympathy for the devil nor the people expect to "get some" for the little or no contribution offered.


That is the foundation of commerce and community.  The swap of trust in return for energy, which energy re-enforces trust.  Right now, should trust be blindly given to a goat herder in Albania, or a house wife in England, or a retired civil servant drawing a pension?  In my minds eye, no.  Without the currency of trust, my energies certainly will not be given, there are other things closer to home that require attention.  The phrase pick your battles comes to mind.


If you wish to jump feet first into the messianic please feel free to do so.  I have other work to do before even considering looking in the direction of saving the planet or the population on it.

mtomato2's picture

the human race as far as I'm concerned is happy amusing itself to death,


+ infinity.

see my post below.

Bananamerican's picture

"I already am in a comfortable place and working with my neighbours and fellow villagers."

ok, it's an "anonymous" village somewhere, i get it

...but your description made me curious...what state/region, cpl?

sounds very Kunstlerian....i've wondered how a semi-return to the 19th century would be pulled off outside the pages of a book. I've also had the sense that it's beginning to happen here and there...some are oblivious, some are OWSing but some are already growing beards and heirloom veggies

CPL's picture

Ottawa Valley specifically.  If you've eaten a strawberry in May, it's probably from one of the fields here or Niagra region.  If you smoke dope in NYC, our number one cash crop is the massive amount marijuana we produce along with corn (none this year, too much water to grow).


Kustler had been a source of inspiration for some in town.  I am drawing most of my inspiration from the universe of steam punk.  Personally i enjoy the flexibility of networks/servers/PC to develop community ties and kick ass playing a FPS.  So most of my engineering skills have gone into how to replicate what we have, smaller and off grid.


Tell you one thing, Ham radios are dirt cheap now and can be purchased by the box load in a Salvation Army.


So yes.  If you are interested in seeking a "lifeboat" Mike Ruppert has collapsenet, that gives civic frameworks and other things of interest by region.

Voluntary Exchange's picture

One thing I can say for many Canadians from what you have posted before,  when "the Man" tries to stick his nose in the community's business, that community seems mighty good at having that individual reconsider his conduct. I hope that remains so for you and yours in the future.  

The "steam power" thing may not be the way we have to go in the future. Me and a lot of friends are working hard to see that it doesn't come to that. But then, if humans can't grow out of the habit of forcing thier will on their neighbors who are minding their own business (what "government" does as an institution)..., a case can be made that humanity is not ready for the kind of power we are talking about for the future. Even though humans are already ready to risk their survival on this planet by using unsafe nuclear technology that can destroy the ecosystem for millions of years just to boil thier water, if they become able to boil their water without any scace "fuel" and do it safely and just about anywhere "out there" and then those who won't "mind their own business" might try to mind the business of those who live on other planets.  That just wouldn't do!

mtomato2's picture

The unmarried mother of four, who drives a primer-coated Chevy Citation with no muffler and spends her tire money on cigarettes.  She gets her ACTUAL tires from the good will of a local Church she doesn't even attend.  She's (and this is harsh) a nonproductive parasite.

And she is legion.  This is to differentiate between (her) and the OTHER mother of four whose deadbeat husband has left her, as she is struggling through night courses to get a job where her kids don't have to be on food stamps any more. One is trying, the other is not.  One is a producer, the other is a consumer.  One is a provider, the other is a leach.  One is walking dead, the other is unmeasurable potential. 

Which one will survive?  Which one is the future of this country?  Isn't that really the question we are all here at this blog to ask as we check in on things every day, sometimes several times a day?  Aren't we all, somewhere deep inside, hoping for the global economic earthquake that clears the table of the one, and sets it back up for the other?

Drive around.  Walk around.  Go to " peopleofwalmart.com " and see.  Look, look! See all the dead and dying!  See the humanity which has given up!  I'm not talking about Values Clarification.  I'm talking about hard, cold survival!  Who can and who can't?  You can look in their eyes and see the answer.

This is the scenario that sets itself up like ten-pins for nature to come through like a bowling ball and separate the wheat from the chaff. 

Nature and math.  Two very ugly, very bitchy sisters.  They don't take prisoners.

CPL's picture

You got it. 

Alternatively if working in parallel with math and nature, a boon may be created for those willing to expend the energy and trust of it.  Drift from the scope of the two sisters, as you mentioned, they don't take prisoners nor will they leave anyone to bury the dead.


Middle ages have an excellent example of human population reduction and the boon.  It took a 30% drop in population of Europe to create the boon of sciences and because wealth was primarily gold or property, the shrinking population allowed for those without to fit properly into the resources in the given area.  While it was a horrible event, the culling did provide comfort for those after...well until they fucked too much and filled up the air gaps with more people.

Historically many more examples can be pointed out to illustrate that sometimes a smaller human population that is mindful of the situation at hand can provide a wealth of sorts.


It's an interesting thing wealth.  I have become rich over the years but I started wealthy.  My wealth is my family and my friends, the experience and education I've received. the coin I've made is from my energy extended in adventures in running a contract engineering company that was hard saved and invested.

All of this wealth was generated from the energy of others willing to extend the trust to me, to then in turn offer people around me the skills I've learned.  What the valuation in money is depends on location and more or less the ability to haggle.  I've done projects for a "metric shit tonne of money" as well as projects under the proper term of "fuck all and not at all".  I've done them while poor and rich in coin.  Currently the organizational efforts that my area is co-ordinating is under the "we get paid fuck all if at all." because the situation isn't about money anymore.

This situation is about survival of the species in a regional location which happens to be Canadian sub-tundra.  Before embarking on this project three years ago I had no clue, zero, nada, zip on the true complexities to how a town works and where triage was going to have to be performed.  The learning curve is very steep and the engineered solutions are difficult to find once you remove oil out of the equation.  Every piece of infrastructure that does anything in terms of sanitation, management or redevelopment all require energy.  Lots of it.

The one thing that coin can buy is information.  The first thing done was expand the library and the vocational skills literature.  When you have 600+ people all professional trades working to develop a learning resource, the work goes quickly and with minimal hindrances.  Even trained library volunteers to rebind instead of rebuy.


Anycase...there are a couple thousand towns and villages in North America that are ready to allow what will happen gracefully in the 200,000 lives that have been working very hard to avoid sub-urban and city issues concerning infrastructure and civic planning

robobbob's picture

you're making a tragic mistake if you think you can "opt" out of the system in any sort of civilized way. The urbanized masses whipped into a frenzy by their masters will demand to extend their will over whatever productive countryside that they need to sustain whatever lifestyle they have, or the promises of a better one. Add in some Fukishima miscalculations, some drifting GMO pollen clouds, and where does this mystical land of self governance and polictical independence exist? That is what has always happened throughout history. If you possess anything of potential value, they will come for it. sooner, or later, they will come.

the hard part isn't building your shangri la, it will be keeping the thieves, barbarians, invading armies, tax men, and do-gooder bureaucrats out.

Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Vol Exchange... "The ultimate dispersion of power would be ultimate "self" government: each person as sovereign."


If we move in this direction we have anarchy. If anarchy prevails there will be no property rights for any but the most powerful, greedy and ruthless and these are the people that control our gov and the world economy now.

Without property rights there is no civilization, only continuous waring tribal factions.

The world needs LIMITED government and a means to insure that it remains limited. So far the world has not solved the dilemma, for not even the constitution of the US is obeyed any longer. Over time all government grows into monstrosities that exist to redistribute taxes to buy votes, serve the powerful financiers to attract campaign contributions with which to buy votes, and pass ever more laws and regulations to benefit large corporations at the expense of small business. Without the prosperity of small business within a nation, that nation will fail in time.

All manner of 'forms of government' have been tried and all have, so far, failed. I have no answer as to what form of government could be created that could be limited in size over a period of hundreds of years.

I only know one thing for sure. We should be very careful not to fall victim to a populist orator with big promises in the coming hard times. Down that path there be dragons. Good luck to us all.





DosZap's picture


"The ultimate dispersion of power would be ultimate "self" government: each person as sovereign."

Worked very well from the foundation of our nation, until government got into everyones pockets.

Can you govern your self, and your life, your actions?.

I think yes.WE ARE(were) sovereigns, not citizens.

You stepped out of line, and the community took care of you.I think the majority of a people are better aware of whats best for them, than the frigging Nazi's running our lives.

Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"Worked very well from the foundation of our nation, until government got into everyones pockets."

How well did it work out for those burned at the stake in the Salem witch hunts?

How well did it work out for the freed blacks in the south that were hanged because they were accused of 'looking at a white woman'.

Have you ever lived in a 'small community'? I have, it's no piece of cake if your ideas differ one iota from consensus opinion. Is that the sort of community you want to live in? If so, join the anarchists in Montana... or, where ever they cluster now.

Anarchy always 'works'... for the anarchists!


Can you govern your self, and your life, your actions?.

I think yes.WE ARE(were) sovereigns, not citizens."

No man is an island. Trade always begins and that is the beginning of the end of 'man as an island'. No man is a soverign... all people are dependent on trade for few areas of the world produce all the items required for life and a well rounded diet. If you really believe that you could be self sufficient why don't you try it? It is bust ass work for an individual to sustain life without cheap energy... anarchists will not cooperate enough to provide cheap energy... or transportation infrastucture...just one example.

"You stepped out of line, and the community took care of you."

In more ways than you can imagine!

"I think the majority of a people are better aware of whats best for them, than the frigging Nazi's running our lives."

We had the best system the world has ever devised... It was called the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Where were you when the UnPatriot Act was passed? Were you one of the idiots that thought the Iraqis would welcome us with rose petals? Do you bend over at airport screenings so the apes can look up your ass? Hell, when I was young I got on a airplane and bought my ticket from one of the stewardesses while in flight. Where were you when Bush the Moron landed on an aircraft carrier and proclaimed 'Mission Accomplished'? Were you waving a flag?

Truth is, we have let the best system of government ever devised slip away from us... while the pols were blowing smoke up our asses...


Voluntary Exchange's picture


"How well did it work out for those burned at the stake in the Salem witch hunts?"


That was in a semi-thocratic system of colonial government imposed by force and organized through a monopoly of "legeal" force in that colony. It was certainly not "self" government with free markets in adjudication or defense.


"No man is an island. ....etc"

"Self" government is not issolation, nor is it self-sufficiency. To the extent that people cooperate they govern themselves. And to that extent they will thrive.  Forcing others to support your political system through taxes promotes conflict.  In a self-government system when some one chooses not to cooperate and attempt theft, fraud or force, the rest of the neighbors will be better served dealing with that agression through free-market services and not through political organization. The power of the purse in a free market ecosystem perpetually preserves power where it justly belongs- in the hands of those who have the character to justly create and use what enables their  co-survival with other cooperating humans -(aka: "wealth"). 

"We had the best system the world has ever devised... "

We fought a revolution proclaiming a more potent statement of truth than any people had up to then "We hold these truths to be self-evident...". Everyone has equality of rights ("all Men are created equal").  "Just government" is only "just" when it is based on the CONSENT of the "governed" (Thomas Jefferson- Declaration of Independence).

The first constitutional convention was a betrayal of these truths by a gang of deist who boldly decided to form a gang called "Congress that would have its preferences enforced by an allied "executive" power and adjudicated by a monopoly of allied Federal justice, all bankrolled by the organized theft of Americans enacted by these key words in the US Constitution: "Congress shall have power to law and collect taxes..."

Or as is precisely illustrated here:


"I'm Allowed to rob you!" - 


If they had done the deal and paid for it by usage fees and not taxes (voluntary exchange) then it would have been as close to perfect as it could have been. Then they would be free to deny "service" to those who didn't wan't to "purchase" their service. and this would have been in a conducive environment to cooperate with any other defense and adjudication/arbitration services that might have offered services to those who did not consent to that particular set of fees for that particular bundle of services that "Congress" was offering. It was a tragic moment in history that such great truths as were proclaimed in the revolution were discarded by the system that claimed to uphold them. 

Congress did not ask, it grabbed and usurped, got some to agree with the crime syndicate, and then demanded tribute from those they decided to tax!

"Truth is, we have let the best system of government ever devised slip away from us... while the pols were blowing smoke up our asses..."


What actually happened is that this particular system of organized theft, fraud, and murder started very small but had access to large amounts of wealth by wealth producing semi-free individuals who could be taxes to feed the beast and allow it to grow. And through time, as ALWAYS happens when theft, fraud, and force are made "legal" in a monopoly - that theft, fraud, and force grew to become the biggest organized threat to human survival on this planet!



BigJim's picture

Exactly. For societies to produce enough wealth to live comfortably, there must be private property, and hence there must be some guarantor that one's property rights are respected. This means some kind of coercive power throughout a region that is accepted by a sufficiently large proportion of the populace that it can function efficiently.

Of course, an organisation that has sufficient coercive power to protect you from predators has sufficient power to become a predator, indeed, THE predator, and it seems that all governments slip into this role eventually. The American experiment started reasonably well (at least, by historical standards - we can't ignore the lack of womens' rights, and slavery) but the US government is rapidly becoming US citizens' biggest threat.

When people say 'the price of freedom is eternal vigilance' they often seem to forget that the biggest threat to their freedom may just be their own government becoming tyrannical.

Voluntary Exchange's picture


Sadly there are two very contradictory meanings to "anarchy" and one of them is a form of propaganda promoted by those who benefit most from "a monopoly of legal force" in a given location (what you might call "government").  

You do not seem to understand the proper  and non-corrupted meaning. Chaos is not "self-government"! People cooperate because that's what works in life!  Ultimately imposing ones views on others by force fails and always will. Cooperation and well being thrive in a market ecosystem. Learn it or experience the consequences of destroying market ecosystems through your ignorance and the tyranny you create through taxes!

SW you are letting mind controlling propagandized words  do your thinking for you instead of understanding the ideas being conveyed through those words.  This is what most people do. This is one reason why no political power can ever be trusted to obey any "constitution" as it gains more power.  Please get educated before you help cause more misery and death! If you pay taxes to a governemnt  you are partialy responsible for the misery and death they cause (especially the USA!). Good luck going forward. I hope you find peace and prosperity.  May I suggest you read:

"Healing Our World" by Mary Ruwart:



Peace to you. Please grant peace to me in exchange!

Snidley Whipsnae's picture

V Exchange... "Sadly there are two very contradictory meanings to "anarchy" "

No, there is only one defintion of 'anarchy'... Regardless of how much you would argue to the contrary. By definition, any form of government excludes any possibility of anarchy.

"People cooperate because that's what works in life! Ultimately imposing ones views on others by force fails and always will. Cooperation and well being thrive in a market ecosystem. Learn it or experience the consequences of destroying market ecosystems through your ignorance and the tyranny you create through taxes!"

Anarchy is chaos and people rarely cooperate in chaotic situations. 'Imposing one's views on others' is absolutely necessary to defend property rights and individual rights (Bill of Rights)... which is the bed rock of peaceful society. Taxes are a necessary evil that is required to maintain a 'limited' government that's primary duty is to maintain property rights and each individuals rights. Problem is, the US Gov has grown too much and has become afraid of it's own population. Therefore, our individual and property rights are under attack by those that are supposed to maintain them.

You long for anarchy but have you experienced it? Do you really want to follow a person that has spent her life working in Big Pharma? What qualifies this woman to carry the banner for all Americans? I don't believe we have had a 'good' president since Eisenhower (and I am not a fan of even Ike) but the woman you choose to follow is not my ideal, either. She opines that she is a Libiterian but what is she really? Since all pols are liars we cannot know what she would try to do until she reaches a position of some power... which seems to me very unlikely...and, if she does reach a position of power it will be because she sold out for campaign money.

I wish you good luck and peace.

Voluntary Exchange's picture



Anarchy:  an - archy: Without Hierarchy. Where everyone truely has equality of rights and no one can claim higher authority over anyone else.  If you, because of cultural views, really enjoy the word "government" then please substitute "self" government instead of the apparantly very "scarry" (to you) word "anarchy", and please recall that each "self" has equality of rights and governing authority under such a system.  

If you want to voluntarily form groups and set up rules for the group, FINE, as long as your group is VOLUNTARY!!!! You try to violate my inherent rights then you cease to be "government" and become a criminal!  And if you get some of your friends to do your dirty work then your are an organized crime gang.  Simple.   You make things so complicated for your understanding when you assign magic powers to the mystical word "government" and then deny the same curtesy of using your own  magic words for me.  If one person or a gang of a million practices theft, fruad, or murder it is still a crime!!  Get it???

Voluntary Exchange's picture



"Anarchy is chaos and people rarely cooperate in chaotic situations. 'Imposing one's views on others' is absolutely necessary to defend property rights and individual rights (Bill of Rights)..."

No! When the issue is human action, as opposed to acts of nature ... , theft, fraud, and the initiation of force create chaos! The absense of these allows the environment conducive to "cooperation". And you are, once again, doing what I warned you against in the previous post.  You again are using the statist propagandized false meaning of "anarchy" to fail to grasp what a monopoly of force wishes to survive by at its victims expense. Anarchy does NOT mean that you will have chaos!!! It means that those who choose to practice chaos will not be able to capture "legal" theft, fraud, and first use of force in order to "legally" initiate chaos! I also give you the simple correct meaning in the other post to your last post.

Miss anthrope's picture

would you be my friend?



Excellent comments.  I believe that the elite who control the ecosystem WANT  the death.  So therefore people will die.  That's what I'm preparing for

All the best to you

AchtungAffen's picture

So, a good solution would be to eliminate minimum wages so the American worker gets the same as the Chinese or Indian or Hatian or your default slave labour wage? That would return profits for those who "hire", right? RIGHT?

OR another solution would be, if we're gonna liberate capital to do whatever it wants, we should also liberate labour, so it also can do what it wants. So people can flow as freely as capital... that would be a good one.

Or if we don't like em immigrants, we could go back to restricting capital, so competition isn't with slave labour anymore...

Destroying government, the only refery on the law, would only create private law: that is, bilateral contracts without regards to anything but what's written there (something already happening). Also, without a government to balance big business, the big moneyed dicks would end up being the owners of everything: they'll face no scale competition. Somethig that's also already happening.

My idea, thinking about that last paragraph is that maybe, instead of making the government grow, big biz grow, what we've managed to achieve is to destroy the public thing. You remember how's that in Latin? The Res-publica...

Now we have the private thing, and the state ended up being the guardian of that. Guardian of a few who made it so, this providing privi-legos, the private law. One set of rules for them big dicks, another for the rest.

But the solution is not destroying the "guardian", because then they would guard themselves... at our peril. We should reclaim the guardian for everyone, as it originally was. Without that, there'll be only serfdom by the hands of the powerful. Now they have the state in their hands. Without the state, they'll create their own. And you'll be fucked.

MSimon's picture

As my grandpappy used to say, "They are all crooks."

Sudden Debt's picture

As my grandpappy used to say: LET'S GO KILL US SOME BLACKJACKETS!

Freewheelin Franklin's picture

It's too late to work within the system, and too soon to shoot the bastards.


- Claire Wolfe 101 Things To Do 'Til The Revolution 

RiverRoad's picture

Speaking of "ALL", what's going on with the sudden silence re Spain?  (After all the noise and video.)  Coincidentally the silence occurred right after Santander was named one of the 29 banks deemed too large to fail.  Anybody have a clue? 

Nate H's picture

what would happen to Italy if Berlusconi fell?  The markets seemed to rally (both in Italy and US) when rumor of his resignation spread..

PY-129-20's picture

Yes, because someone will come up with the idea that anything might be better as a PM than Berlusconi. Even a radioactive rod would do a better job. So? Rally along. Sorry, but when I last checked, everything could get a positive spin - and some of those spins make you cynical (like Japan in March).

About Germany leaving the EURO? Not possible with the current (and of course corrupt) politicians. But inflation is also not possible - it's already eating away what people earn (still media is ensuring readers that higher wages would be also a terrible thing.) - I might remind you that Germany did everything to keep wages low in the recent years - which also curbed the German consumer (buy the cheap stuff - which lead to the famous ad slogan 'Geiz ist geil' (avarice is awesome - geil has also connotation to being lustful) - so some Germans are refering to be the 'China of Europe' (not meant positively).

Why is Germany still in the game? Well, I think one reason is that some companies hope to get some more specialized workers from those nations that are currently going through a stressful time. Might be from Spain, might be from Italy, even from Greece (although it seems that Greek people want to emigrate to Australia...). And the political message is - "we cannot destroy what we have accomplished in the last 50 years". "If the Euro fails, Europe as an idea fails" - back to square one. Somewhat ironic if you think about the "unity" in Europe and about "democracy" as a whole.

There are now bitter clashes within German media - some say this is the end of democracy and that we need to restore democracy (like the highly respected German philosopher Habermas), some even go further and say - well, it's postdemocratic - we must think how to deal with it - Democracy has failed. And some think - Oh welll - all that talk about democracy is an exaggeration (like Fleischhauer) by a few doomers (lol and even dares to put Habermas into that category - fucking idiot).

Other than that it is a foggy and greyish Tuesday in a busy country called Germany. And I hope I will get a chance to see 'Little Bob' (ref: to El Hierro) soon before he goes Surtseyan. I'll migrate with the other birds to the South for a few days, before 'Winter is coming' and I'll have to pick a fight with White Walkers here.

Mr Pink's picture

I'm pretty sure that the "inanimate carbon rod" could still steal the republican nomination

duo's picture

"In rod we trust".  LOL

Big Slick's picture

"I'm pretty sure that the "inanimate carbon rod" could still steal the republican nomination"

You forgot to add .... "and win 65% of the popular vote in November."

JPM Hater001's picture

Maybe Ron Paul will chose it as a running mate...

barliman's picture


I would suggest adding:

November/December 2012 | First Greece and then Italy demonstrate the inherent limitation in parlimentary democracies when neither can put together governing coalitions. See Belgium: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/05/belgium-no-government-2011_n_949284.html


gojam's picture

I know I'm going to get shot down for this but.....

This is a summary. I can't see any evidence of a comparative timeline or any meaningful attempt at trying to make a comparison or try and establish where we are now in comparison to 2008 or what comes next (except for 'it's not over')

These were the established objectives of this article.

I think that it shows that no comparative timeline is possible and this searching for a "Lehman Moment" is silly.

Instead of looking at two meaningless timelines it would be better to look at the last 5 years as one continuous timeline.

PS, I really do think that zerohedge makes some really valuable observations. I just don't think this is one. Sorry.

Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"Instead of looking at two meaningless timelines it would be better to look at the last 5 years as one continuous timeline."

All of human history is a single, continuous timeline.

We are not involved in a fucking football game. There are no 'quarters', 'halves' or 'end of game' clocks. And, the very best gamblers are only right about 66% of the time when picking winners of sporting events. Amazing, a sporting event where the relative strengths and weaknesses of opponents are known and the success rate of picking winners is not very good.

So, on what do you base the premis that ZH, or anyone, should be able to predict a 'timeline' for future political/economic events? What great event have you personally predicted that actually came to pass? And, if you did predict something that came to pass do you attribute your prediction to analysis of events or to luck?

You are living in a dream world. Try reading more real, not revisionist, history.


gojam's picture

You've misread my post. (if you're replying to me)

"We are not involved in a fucking football game. There are no 'quarters', 'halves' or 'end of game' clocks. And, the very best gamblers are only right about 66% of the time when picking winners of sporting events. Amazing, a sporting event where the relative strengths and weaknesses of opponents are known and the success rate of picking winners is not very good."

Is exactly the point I was making.

"So, on what do you base the premis that ZH, or anyone, should be able to predict a 'timeline' for future political/economic events? What great event have you personally predicted that actually came to pass? And, if you did predict something that came to pass do you attribute your prediction to analysis of events or to luck?"

I wasn't proposing that a prediction could be made.

"You are living in a dream world. Try reading more real, not revisionist, history."

Try reading the post you're replying to.


Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"These were the established objectives of this article."

I did read your post and it sounded like one great, long whine. Like a bleating sheep that has glimpsed the wolf and has no place to shelter. 

It's gonna get very rough. Rougher than you can imagine and there is not going to be anyone but you for you to rely on. No one, no government, no homeland security, no cops, no anything is going to be around when you need them the most. Sometimes knowledge can be the most powerful weapon one can possess.

History is a continuous timeline and the more you understand about what has happened the better you will understand human nature... which moves history forward and, at times, backward. Human nature is about power and that which brings power, money. But, as the bard noted, the path to power is not simple and never free of traps and pitfalls and schemes and counter schemes, etc... We call it history. The bard turned it to entertainment but at the same time educated the serfs to the intrigues of power.

The main thing to understand is that there are no defined 'times' in human history. I read people on this site that are complainging about 'this collapse has gone on too long, let's get it over with!'... Bullshit... We are still playing soft ball... the hard ball game has yet to start. How were the serfs in continuously waring world to feel? Did they not yearn for an end to rape, pillage, death, war, famine, disease? Hell yes, but their's was only a cry in the dark and the reason that they prayed so much... But the suffering continued.

BTW, nothing wrong with my eyesight, no need to bold your sentences... unless you feel it lends weight to your contentions... :)

gojam's picture

I used the bold to differentiate between your quotes and my replies.

I can tell that you're one of those guys who thinks he's the only one who sees the truth and everyone else is an idiot.

"The main thing to understand is that there are no defined 'times' in human history."  You don't say, and there's me waiting for the commercial breaks.

Listen, Eistein. Timelines are a tools used by historians. I know they can not be used to predict.

"These were the established objectives of this article." Indeed, this article had a stated objective. I personally don't think it was ever viable to try but that was the objective.

What's your point? You seem to be implying that my position is different from that which I've stated.


Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"Listen, Eistein. Timelines are a tools used by historians."

I'm a historian and I do not use timelines to differentiate one era from another... with the exception of geological time.

"What's your point? You seem to be implying that my position is different from that which I've stated."

My point is that there are no timelines and no one can predict what is going to happen in the future with any certainty.

For instance: I think we are in a depression that began ~ 2007 and will end in the future depending on events that play out between now and that unknown future date. The events are unknowable because of the occasional altruistic human being. Most human actions are fairly predictable... but there is the occasional contrarian altruist that gums up the predictability of the future. In addition, there are unknown natural disasters that may occur and effect decisons.

I only differ with you on your desire for anarchy. It has been tried and it may work for periods of time in small populations. Studies done by socioligists suggest that a population of about 140 individuals is the limit. Once the population exceeds ~ 140, too much time is required for individuals within that population to greet and pass information on a daily basis. If the 'greeting and bsing' breaks down people withing the group become suspicious of the motives/aims of other members. IOWs, too much time is lost bsing and productivity suffers, for division of labor occurs even in very small populations. If a guy is going deer hunting he hasn't the time to shoot the breeze with 140 people before the hunt... it would be noon before he reached the woods. Anyway, even in a small group, someone is always striving for leadership and there goes the anarchy neighborhood.

Anarchy in a large and complex society, which requires a great deal of cooperation among people to keep everything running smoothly, is a really dumb idea.

You should delve into the history of the nation state Sparta. It's an interesting study and much can be learned from their experiences.

gojam's picture

You're an historian ?

"I only differ with you on your desire for anarchy." That's the point that I stopped reading. Where you've got that from I just don't know.

Big Slick's picture

My impression was that the article sought to disprove the premise that "this time is NOT different."

And that the predictive timelines were there for personal amusement/loose example (I enjoyed them).

!! Folks on this site should not be slapping ZH when it sticks its neck out.  This is what we pay them for (and get value for every penny we pay).  Take ZH's opinion/analysis, work it through yourself, and then either discard or give it creedence.

If you want an outlet for inane comments, useless information, and lack of any semblance of valuable analysis, scroll past the article to the area marked 'Comment viewing options...'

(I know that's harsh.  Those of you who submit thoughtful and useful analysis know who you are and should disregard that last sentence)

Michael's picture

The mother of all busts a cometh.

Oh how I pine for the olden days;

New Century


rgilliam37's picture

Excellent piece of commentary. How do politicians and greedy CEO's sleep at night after the games that they play hurt typical citizens trying to live life.

Astounding the greed and outright callousness of these people. Lynch mob and pitchfork time