Whose Debt Am I?

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Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:14 | 1906242 transaccountin
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APMEX 1 oz Silver Bars .999 Fine Silver for $0.99 over spot 24 Hours Only


Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:34 | 1906296 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Awesome tone and third person play in the article.

And such a pertinent Q. And a simple answer.

Wool = Shearable debt! End of Story!



Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:41 | 1906569 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Apmex is just ok. Real buyers get physical through COMEX and take delivery or through Tulving. Gainesville Coin is another option for smaller buyers.


Thu, 11/24/2011 - 08:37 | 1910251 BigJim
BigJim's picture

...Real buyers get physical through COMEX and take delivery

Not if they had accounts with Lind-Waldock, they don't.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:43 | 1906323 CPL
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Pease stop with the spam...

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:22 | 1906491 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

WTF is up with HYG this morning?  If equities follow HYG...

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:17 | 1906250 GeneMarchbanks
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I am confused...

As those ships around Syria continue to move, expect rating agency bullshit to become irrelevant.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:46 | 1906258 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

The reality is that Israel cannot survive any longer without the water from the Yarmouk River. It shares it with Syria and now like everything else the US gets sucked in to fight Israels battles to liberate more resources.


Israel's mandate; Kill America's youth.

"Restore The Draft, Israel Is Demanding It"

Masters of deception:
2002 Israel-Syria “Treaty of Peace”

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 22:04 | 1909167 Use of Weapons
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Paid troll - Blocking in effect.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:25 | 1906266 knight99
knight99's picture

I am no ones debt. I am shiny and pure. I have been used for 5000 years and never lost my value.


Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:04 | 1906418 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

This is simply not true.


(edit: added this chart):


Gold hit a high in 1979/80 and then lost value (edit): every year for  for 20 years, hitting a nadir in 1999. This is true with gold vs almost all major currencies (obviously euro didn't exist).

unless you are arguing that Gold value remained constant, and it was the US Dollar and other Fiat that strengthened over those 20 years? 

Gold has excellent qualities and excellent reasons for ownership.  no reason to make up stuff.

I will also mention that gold lost it's value back in the old Conquistador times when huge galleons of it came to Spain, stolen from the New World.  However, that will not happen again and thus we need not worry about it.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:46 | 1906587 LawsofPhysics
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Spoken like a typical academic.  Tell me fucknut, has anyone holding physical ever starved?  Gold's purchasing power has remained more consistent than anything else, even when your Conquistador's showed up back in Spain.  By the way idiot, there was less than half a billion people around back then too, now we have over 7 billion (how much has gold production increased again relative to the population, yeah I thought so) Your comments are beyond stupid.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:54 | 1906621 tj3
tj3's picture

Spoken like a true wife beater.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 11:06 | 1906656 TruthInSunshine
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Spoken like Bernank's little drummer boy.

You're ignoring, at minimum, 3,000 years of history.

Good luck with that "Gee, I think I'll bet on a 3000 Year MA reversal here" wager.


"In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect
savings from confiscation through inflation. ... This is the shabby
secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending
is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the
way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property
rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the
statists' antagonism toward the gold standard."

-- Alan Greenspan



Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:51 | 1906606 margaris
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Mmh, spaceships mining those precious asteroids out there?

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:24 | 1906528 scatterbrains
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or how about a william bonzai adaptation of the Allstate ins. commercial with that guy strapped onto the side of a debt train going off a cliff with a big shit eating grin on his face.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:17 | 1906251 jcaz
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Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:22 | 1906256 TruthInSunshine
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In the larger picture, any and all debt that results and is imposed as a result of fractional reserve banking practices is the chain & shackle of anyone who a)  provides goods or services, and/or b) pays taxes now or who will in the future, and/or c) has deposits at any Federal Reserve 'capitalized' bank.

That's whose debt it is.

Arguably, I could extend this analysis and credibly argue the debt is owned by anyone born (whether they ever do a, b or c above or not) into an alleged 'sovereign' nation, as the debt is merely a burden on the incentive to want to do anything productive, as each unit of productivity one contributes is taxed at a higher rate (I'm not just talking income taxes here, but the overall scheme of paying interest to the Money Masters - aka Fractional Reserve Banking Lever Pullers), and even represents a crushing disincentive that represses all economic activity.


Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:25 | 1906264 end da fed
end da fed's picture

and anyone who is going to be born

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:45 | 1906321 CPL
CPL's picture

Actually it now gives a decent presidence to not paying taxes period.  When someone else makes promises with your money and time it's usually called theft.  When the theft turns out to be legitimate but when the theft turns into a giant scam that breaks.


Hmmmm, anyone else here feel like giving a thin red dime to these pricks?

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:47 | 1906340 Seer
Seer's picture

The "debt" belongs to the SYSTEM (the growth-based system).  System collapses and the debt is gone...

The System IS a BUBBLE!

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:21 | 1906259 mayhem_korner
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"Sovereign debt" has a nicer ring than "deferred pillaging."

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:26 | 1906269 oogs66
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deferred pillaging is awesome :D

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:50 | 1906348 Seer
Seer's picture

Or "future entrapment."

But, yeah, "deferred pillaging" is great.  Reminds me of when I first heard "deferred maintenance" to describe a deteriorating home.  The games we play with words...

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:26 | 1906268 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Best paragraph about the EIB i've ever read. European inv bank is nothing more than a charity program by the bureaucrats for their cronies. 

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:27 | 1906272 oogs66
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it seems strange that within europe they need half a trillion for projects private companies or banks wouldn't finance

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:31 | 1906286 GeneMarchbanks
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It's a way to secure a 'marketplace' especially for countries who have yet to join. Look where their 'investment' goes:


ZH had it right, EUs version of the IMF...

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:00 | 1906409 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Absolutely. I suppose making a profit is NOT within the EIBs mandate!

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:28 | 1906273 DutchDude
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So many suits, claiming they will mend a broken system by lending more paper... all the same;

It's like putting a silk pillow over a chair filled with dogshit. It might sit comfortable for a while, but you still have to clean the chair AND the pillow in the end... Or put another silk pillow over the shitstained one... ah, you get the idea...

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:54 | 1906372 Seer
Seer's picture

Surely you're not suggesting that "the very brightest" have sold us a sack of shit, are you? </sarc>

But, had we not ignored all this for all this time, that there could NOT be infinite growth, we wouldn't be in this situation.  We bought the lies.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:13 | 1906441 DutchDude
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True True... however, can you blame the people for not knowing that what has not been told?

Most people have absolutely no idea what the hell is going on in the world, as long as the have jobs, mortgage and spending money they have a modern life.

It was the jobs of the governments to tell them it is based on a ponzi scheme and act to improve it; that's how representative democracy should work; people select persons who know shit to govern their country. They failed in doing that and now the whole game is falling apart. Blaming it on the people is reverse representative democracy... don't think that's fair imo.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:43 | 1906576 Bolweevil
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I was ignorant, but now I'm found. Thanks Tyler. Happy Turkey to you and your mom.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 11:13 | 1906710 MachoMan
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Blaming the people in general, to some degree, is perfectly acceptable.  All forms of democracy (government) require a vigilant watch and cannot function with general political apathy.  This metric is in conflict with real economic prosperity, which necessarily increases political apathy of the masses...  Thus effectively sowing the seeds of its own demise...

This isn't the first time this has happened...  people start paying attention when the ship starts listing, not when the captain is running full steam into a field of ship sinking icebergs.

The people KNOW what will happen, we're just not in a position to care.  Whether it's taking out helocs on a house that's been appraised by rainbow shitting unicorns or trampling people to get that tickle me elmo doll, people just don't give a fuck...

and then things get so bad they can't be politically active because...  we're too busy worrying about survival...  there is a range for government to work...   

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 13:20 | 1907237 Seer
Seer's picture

First, let me clarify my above point.  I state things not so much to lay blame at people, but, rather, SYSTEMS.  The System is predicated on growth, therefore it was doomed to fail from the get-go.

"The people KNOW what will happen, we're just not in a position to care. "

No, I don't believe they do.  If you understood the real urgency then you'd have taken action (like most here have).  The "don't care part" has more to do with a mindset of trying to work within the very system that has you locked in and going over the cliff.  There's apathy toward fixing it, as there should be, because it's not fixable!  To me it's a matter of everyone thinking everyone else is to blame, and that others will be "outed" in time to save their asses (from plunging over the cliff).  No, it's the lazy position, instilled in society by TPTB (captured rats in the cage).  One can always take action.  The System, however, is pretty harsh when you try to leave it.  Hard to get oneself to gnaw off one's leg in order to escape the trap.

One way or another people are going to be exposed to a lot of pain.  May the forces have mercy on us...

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:28 | 1906274 Snidley Whipsnae
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I have a central bank that prints money to buy bonds from my treasury dept and my central bank loses money holding them on balance sheet. My treasury takes IOUs back from my central bank to keep my central bank from going broke. My arrangement resembles two drunks leaning on each other so neither one falls down. Today, with its 50-to-1 leverage and investment in volatile securities, my central bank looks more like a poorly run hedge fund than a central bank. Who am I?
I am the US Government.


Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:56 | 1906383 Seer
Seer's picture

Follow me said the blind man to the deaf man...

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:28 | 1906276 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I pay taxes so....



Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:29 | 1906278 cossack55
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I hold over $120 trillion in debt for the US alone.  I am broke. I am the US middle class.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:37 | 1906301 GeneMarchbanks
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That makes no sense. How can you be broke and middle class?

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:44 | 1906324 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

Its not what you have, its what you APPEAR to have.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:57 | 1906384 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"That makes no sense. How can you be broke and middle class?"


Make that 'former middle class'... a change of perception takes time... and change is right up there with death on the list of items that people fear most.

This might be a little help for those trying to cope... including me.

"Looking out at the road rushing under my wheels —

Looking back at the years gone by like so many summer fields.
In '65 I was seventeen and running up 101
I don't know where I'm running now, I'm just running on ...

In '69 I was twenty-one and I called the road my own
I don't know when that road turned onto the road I'm on.


You know I don't even know what I'm hoping to find ...
Running into the sun, but I'm running behind...
?Jackson Browne
Wed, 11/23/2011 - 14:09 | 1907461 Seer
Seer's picture

Jackson Browne gets you an up arrow by default :-)

If I could I'd give you another one for the "perception" comment.  Most people are so firmly a creation of their "position," their job that they'll defend that to the bitter end, even if it means a premature end.

The faster I run the behinder I get.  People starting to get it that we need to slow down? If you don't know where you're going you shouldn't be trying to get there in such a hurry!

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 10:49 | 1906596 rufusbird
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"That makes no sense. How can you be broke and middle class?"

New house, underwater, two new cars underwater, Hign income, no savings. No equity period.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:29 | 1906279 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

Liquid. Solid. Gold.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:30 | 1906282 jiggerjuice
jiggerjuice's picture

I am your student loans, and am impossible to write off via bankrupcy as the "law" stands in its current form. I am about a trillion bucks, and I was mostly birthed by Franklin Stupiversity and ITT Technical Nonsense. Also, none of the deadbeats that wandered into my joint are going to get jobs for 200k a year as barbers or chefs. I am bigger than all of the credit cards in America - you know, the 15 cards per person average? Even bigger. Oh but don't worry, I'll get paid via tax return clawbacks and a lifetime of peonage. Zug zug.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:39 | 1906307 Carlyle Groupie
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Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:39 | 1906309 mayhem_korner
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You were fleeced.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:32 | 1906287 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Got physical?  You better, the vast majority of the "debt" is a fraud.  People are about to find out precisely how much of the "law" possession is.  As it turns out, possession is all that matters moving forward.

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:51 | 1906356 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

All true, which is why FDR confiscated gold, and why none other than Alan Greenspan RECENTLY wrote that:

Greenspan: Gold is a Currency, Euro “Breaking Down”

Wed, 11/23/2011 - 09:41 | 1906313 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

I was with you right up to the downgrades. There will be no downgrades. The ratings agencies will begin to seriously look at Antarctica in the next few weeks. That is my call. Out of nowhere they will drop it's rating 3 notches and keep a negative outlook. If it does not pull itself together very soon they will be forced to downgrade them again. Everybody keep a close eye on Antarctica.

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