Wikileaks Reveals Early Chinese Warning Of Domestic Asset Bubbles, Overcapacity, Bashing Of "Copy And Paste" Educational System

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Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:16 | 1608462 Long-John-Silver
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Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:52 | 1608518 Michael
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Agenda 21 Bitches!

Agenda 21 For Dummies

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 21:30 | 1608589 russki standart
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Wikileaks is a CIA front.  Nothing of substance was ever released. The above info can easily be collated from public sources. 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:51 | 1608926 Oh regional Indian
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Indeed...wikileaks, huge psy-op. As susal, some truth mixed in. But if this is the tell, imagine what is not told?



Sun, 08/28/2011 - 01:20 | 1608947 Michael
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Codex Alimenatarious portion moderated out of this discussion.

Very nice.

Enjoy this;

I found something new very interesting. I recommend watching the whole thing. Weekend watching. Pax Americana and the Weaponization of Space


Sun, 08/28/2011 - 16:08 | 1609816 JW n FL
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(Reuters) - Some internal Bank of America files obtained by WikiLeaks have been destroyed, according to a former close collaborator of Julian Assange, the whistleblowing website's founder.

In an email to Reuters, Daniel Domscheit-Berg, who last year was fired by Assange as WikiLeaks' co-spokesman, confirmed that he had destroyed "roundabout" 3,000 submissions WikiLeaks received related to Bank of America.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 06:09 | 1954124 jaffa
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In the course of a company doing business, some consumers may take legal action against a corporation to recover money for damages and or to gain media attention and public interest. A consumer lawsuit does many things to a company including damaging its public reputation and causing it to spend a substantial amount of money to resolve the situation. Thanks.
resume help

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 21:18 | 1608568 MarketTruth
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China has more 'honor' students than the USA has students. If you have not been to China, they truly value education and your grade means the difference between shame and being respected, as does WHERE you place within your graduating class. In the USA, on the other hand, there is record high school(!) drop out rates in many places.

The USA 'leak' reads like pure propoganda. Reminds me of when Timmy Geithner went to China talking about the 'strong dollar' policy. Chinese students, being far wiser than to believe Tim's bullshit, literally laughed in Timmay's face.

The truth is, the USA knows that Asian countries have a far higher education system and students have drive to succeed. A grade of B is just not good enough in the eyes of their peers, and family shame if the child gets C or below. Meanwhile in the USA a C grade is acceptable... and dropping out of high school in the USA in not uncommon.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 21:33 | 1608591 russki standart
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I agree with you for the most part. The leak reads the standard BS put out by low level functionaries.  One need only compare asian to american standardized test scores to realize just how bad the US system really is. Our universities are good but the secondary school systems are an embarrassment. 

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:14 | 1608883 AnonymousAnarchist
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ICYMI has been posting some cables worth reading. The most recent details five manslaughter incidents In Iraq.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 16:44 | 1609899 trav7777
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completely wrong- subtracting blacks and hispanics places us ahead of china.

Our system is not bad at all; we just have a large population with hereditably low IQs

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 17:49 | 1610029 Maniac Researcher
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Not only did trav7777 not receive any junks for his openly racist comment, "hereditably low IQs," but he has received one +1.

Diversity of opinion in the ZH community, my ass. Your community has a self censoring system to support multiple views? Yeah - I'll believe it when I see it.

Both the article and the comments are full of racist tripe. Unequivocal statements about the Chinese and American educational systems are completely uncited bullshit. [dropping links to conspiracy websites, white supremacy blogs, and Murdoch-owned periodicals do not count for much - sorry]

Remind me why your community thinks it has credibility? You're preaching to your choir - don't delude yourselves into thinking that ideas presented here have much empirical merit.

Stick to being market mini-exploiters like your friends at Goldman Sachs. Being parasitic financial geeks seems to be all any of you are [moderately] decent at. To say the political commentary is lacking is a bit of an understatement.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 20:30 | 1610425 MsCreant
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You dropped this too early in the comments. Read on. These ideas are critiqued.

trav's comments went up later, many have been through and left.

trav knows how I feel about his point of view. We have debated it many times. You pick a thread I am not debating him in to drop in and say no one is challenging him. Am I supposed to call him out every single time? Then I'd do nothing else. Too many around.

I get back to my own uncle who is racist. I have helped ruin more than one Thanksgiving debating him. Finally, you just eat turkey together and love your racist uncle. Part of the family.

Each of us has our weaknesses and faults. Some of them are really explosive faults, no doubt. I agree it is a sucky one, but it does not negate every opinion he has. For some folks here, it does. I don't fault them and I understand why they need to shut him out, they have clear lines in the sand. Too many tragedies have occured justified by the race rubric. I still want to listen, still want to understand "why" they feel like they can generalize characteristics to every member of an entire group when any normally smart person would not do that regarding anything (housing always goes up, that's nuts too, right?).

Freedom of speech, for me, you, and trav.

(and if trav gets too fucking weird, how ever will I get him in my gunsights if you insist on driving him underground?)


Fri, 09/02/2011 - 21:53 | 1628728 Maniac Researcher
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Your ideas about free speech are a bit antiquated. Hate speech is an altogether different beast - it actually does manifests violence, disenfranchisement, and exploitation in the real world beyond the internet - on both small and large scales. Denial of this observable phenomenon can really only be construed as ignorance - and an apology for damage already done.

I hate to burst your bubble, MsCreant, but just because you haven't been on the receiving end of hateful attitudes, doesn't make them any less real.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 21:48 | 1608622 DosZap
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Same with India.............and Pakistan.

The Progressives have MURDERED our system.As the famous Marxist opined,(loosley paraphrased) Give me ONE Generation of your children, and you will be destoyed.

We're living proof.

9 of the 10 planks of the Commie manifesto are IN PLACE in America..

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:55 | 1608863 macholatte
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Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.
Vladimir Lenin


A man who has never gone to school may steal from a freight car; but if he has a university education, he may steal the whole railroad.
Theodore Roosevelt

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 19:47 | 1610340 caconhma
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Character, in the long run, is the decisive factor in the life of an individual and of nations alike.
Theodore Roosevelt

Lenin was utterly wrong. As soon as the Soviet totalitarian grip was loosened up, the entire system collapsed and communist ideology became a laughing stone.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:02 | 1608643 reader2010
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Grades mean nothing, and they can only mean not thinking at all. Eistein didn't get straight As or 4.0 GPA in neither high school nor college. Leonardo Da Vinci, who is generally considered as a rare genius, never did any formal schooling. But, he came up a lot of revolutionary stuff, such helicopters, and deep sea diver suits.  What about examples of Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak and Bill Gates. What really matters is one's independent/innovative thinking out of the box.  Since the ancient times,  the Chinese never studied out of any intellectual curiosity; rather, they studied to pass the civil service exams so that they could make an easy living. 

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 22:16 | 1608673 DoChenRollingBearing
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An interesting response, good for you reader2010.  Indeed, the civil service has been an easy job for centuries. I hope more China experts expound here on this.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:55 | 1608861 apartofthings
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DoChen: I will try to give some more background, forgive me if some of this is a little dry, but there's a great deal of history to cover. I've done my best to make it concise and conversational. I'm working from memory here so any inaccuracies are honest mistakes rather than intentional distortions.

The Imperial Examination system in China began around AD 600, in the Sui Dynasty. It was limited to a small number of people, and the purpose was to test candidates' knowledge of the Confucian classics. The goal was to provide astute and orthodox advisors to the emperor. Rather than being manuals of administration, the Confucian classics are books about moral and social philosophy. The sort of thing you might want people whose primary job is politics to be good at. Those chosen were closest to the Emperor, so were some of the most powerful men in China.

During the Song Dynasty (960-1279) the system was massively expanded, and was used to fill more and more positions in the imperial administration. The emphasis was still on the study of the Confucian classics. This started to cause problems, because as I said, the classics were not manuals of administration. Plus, the larger number of applicants and recruits meant that more levels of examination had to be devised. It also meant exams had to become more standardised and questions more obtuse. Since these men were Imperial servants, they were more important than other people, had more power, and were better paid. All on the backs of the peasants and merchant classes.

The rot in this system of government became evident in 1279, when the Mongols swept in and beat the tar out of the Song Dynasty. It is telling that when the new Khans reconstructed the social order, they moved Confucian scholars from the top spot to the very bottom, because they were judged to contribute nothing to society. Ironically, the Mongol period (or Yuan Dynasty) is the source of a lot of great vernacular Chinese theatre, since there were so many out-of-work scholars who needed to eat.

The Mongol Empire finally retreated in 1368, leading to the establishment of the Ming Dynasty. The scholar classes who the Mongols had shut out got back in with a vengeance, as part of the so-called Neo-Confucian movement. Adherence to Confucian orthodoxy became intense. The exams were fully reinstated, and became even more narrow and obtuse.

While theoretically any male could write the exams and rise up in the imperial civil service, in practice the hours of study required to master vague ideas in thousand-year old books meant that the sons of the rich were most successful. It perpetuated aristocratic social hierarchy, while having a meritocratic face. This bloated, top-heavy state existed until 1909 when the Imperial system was abolished, but by then it was of course too late, and the Empire fell just a few years later.

This was such a stifling intellectual system because Confucianism is very conservative in nature. It emphasises following authority and never questioning it. In an ideal Confucian society, every person knows his or her place, and accepts it humbly. Children obey their parents, peasants obey their lords. Parents and lords take care of those beneath them in a paternalistic fashion. This is why the Ming Chinese, who at one point had a massive navy, scrapped it: it was immoral to go too far overseas, because then you could not properly take care of your parents.


While this system isn't literally in place any more, a lot of the same ideas are. In China, Korea, and Japan, there is an obsession with entrance examinations for every level of schooling. It is harder to get into high school or university than it is to graduate. Then once you are into a top school, you get access to the next top school or job. So it perpetuates the system, giving the children of the rich the best chance to stay rich. I have taught students in China and seen the kinds of questions they get asked on these entrance exams. They literally make no sense, or test some piece of knowledge so obscure it will never be useful.

There is a copy-paste problem in Chinese schooling, that much is for certain. But this is not secret information, like the rest of Wikileaks' stuff. In this case it is the usual attack on China, an attempt to stir up popular anger in the country against the regime. Recall that Ben Ali of Tunisia, Ghaddafi of Libya, Mubarak of Egypt, and Assad of Syria were all targeted in the same major cable dump. Two have been ousted, and the other two are fighting civil wars. The "leaked" cables were the sparks used to light fires of unrest and precipitate these phony colour revolutions. Wikileaks is a front for the US intelligence community, plain and simple.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:21 | 1608894 reader2010
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The Chinese are too stupid to understand that education is not about confirming what they already know. It's about proving themselves wrong. It's about taking them to a position where they have not been before.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:41 | 1608915 apartofthings
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reader2010, I'm impressed, that is a very well-worded statement on what the true purpose of education should be. As someone who has suffered enough of the American educational system, I also daresay that Chinese aren't alone in their stupidity.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 11:06 | 1609276 MsCreant
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We are a Potemkin culture. China is now too. We work hard to look sucessful rather than cultivating real wealth: wisdom, inner spirit, perserverance and the ability to solve problems. Nice post and answer.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 12:13 | 1609375 Hulk
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You are my gura!

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 21:04 | 1610494 caconhma
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If one cannot read and write, the rest is irrelevant.

There are many facets of education. Education is all about learning, not about indoctrination.

Finally, speaking about Chinese pupils IQ, they are doing exceptionally well attending American schools. My university PhD advisor was a Chinese professor (originally from Taiwan). He was an excellent scientist and a highly-capable manager. He was a Dean of School of Engineering at a major US private university.


Sun, 08/28/2011 - 00:53 | 1608928 DoChenRollingBearing
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Thanks apartofthings for the detailed reply.

A couple of years ago I finally got around to reading a (fairly short) history of China.  The exams were mentioned in the context you describe, though in less detail.


The future heads to us faster than ever.  I will remain attentive.  Interesting times indeed.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 14:26 | 1609604 DCCynic
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Outstanding, simply outstanding. Thanks for taking the time to do that for us.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 15:30 | 1609736 apartofthings
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Of course. Happy to share.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 16:06 | 1609808 who_farted
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Wonderful analysis!

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:11 | 1608773 duo
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I went to Chengdu to train some Chinese engineers about 5 years ago.  Driving around Chengdu, it was interesting to see the front of all the buildings finished with neon lights, but if you turned off the street, there were concrete skeletons.  Nothing was finished out.

Oh, and the engineers know about what I learned in high school in the 70's.  There is an optical design program that costs $7500 to buy.   They expected to give me to give them a copy.  I said I couldn't do that.  The engineering manager said he would be fired for paying for software...if you can't steal it, you can't use it.  To this day they may be using the demo version taking screen shots like they were then.

We tried to co-engineeer products to no avail.  We essentially built a prototype, dropped it on their desk, and said "copy it", and they did...well.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 09:58 | 1609212 sleepingbeauty
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This echos my experience. I worked at a telecommunications company that was desperate to get into China. They were told that if we gave them stuff for free we could convince them to buy our stuff. They took the free stuff and didn't ever buy. I don't have any support for the fact that they copied, but I would say that they failed to grasp that you need to invest in infrastructure in order to grow.

It was like top level people worked at the level of low level bureaucrats. No vision.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 02:55 | 1609021 Taku
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You are spot on. Many of the youths there are smart, well educated (barring 'professional' students) and ambitious. For those that want truth, it is due to their academia. Just as powerful, and even more corrupt than Ivy West. The young learn to adapt and survive within their SNAFU system. Resources per capita for the masses are limited. Given the freedom (if that ever happens), and opportunity, they would be amazing innovators, as I'm certain any people would be.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 09:45 | 1609199 ToNYC
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The State-total control authorities determine the correct answers. In USA, a Steve Jobs is allowed to win without following their right answers. Japan, not much different; learn the "Right" answers quickly in else but the Natural Laws of science or lose for life.

A recipe for mediocrity Sold to You, mate.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 13:03 | 1609440 ElvisDog
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I experienced the cut-and-paste phenomenon first hand. I occasionally write research papers on fluid dynamics. I picked up a paper once on a similar topic written by a researcher or student from a Chinese University. There were passages in the Chinese paper that were lifted word-for-word from one of mine. They didn't even bother to change the wording around a little bit.

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 08:59 | 2296900 jaffa
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An academic discipline is a branch of knowledge which is formally taught, either at the university, or via some other such method. Each discipline usually has several sub disciplines or branches, and distinguishing lines are often both arbitrary and ambiguous. Thanks for sharing.

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 00:19 | 1610866 Party with Berl...
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Mon, 08/29/2011 - 00:21 | 1610875 Party with Berl...
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Your broad supposition comparing the US with China is a bit misleading. The Chinese do value education, what they know if it, and in the context of what is Chinese education. The have enormous discipline and an unrelenting sense of hard work. The part about brute memorization and cut and paste is absolutely true. Chinese elementary and middle school education completely avoids stimulating creative interests. There are 40+ kids to a class and discipline and routine are the preferred path to success. The "young pioneer" program doesn’t want inquiring minds but rather competent followers. How do I know this? I have a Chinese 11 year old, my nephew, living in my house. He has been here for 4 years. I have observed him, his friends, and his school. I have been to the school and have talked to the principal and teachers. Even in creative pursuits, the arts for example, the discipline and routine are tantamount to creativity. It is just beginning to change, in urban centers, with limited internet sharing, among the more educated college aged students and a few individualist Illuminati.

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 01:12 | 1610957 Leraconteur
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There are 40+ kids to a class...


There are 55 to 72 kids to a class. 40 would be a VERY small class.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:22 | 1608468 max2205
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Sat, 08/27/2011 - 21:47 | 1608473 Atomizer
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Timmah the Keebler Elf (Chocolate Chip Graham Cracker Czar) will unleash another Cash Management Bill (CMB) this week to save the world from doom. Twinkle Toes-in-Chief will tell the peasants to grease up & support the new progressive job plan.

Pure comedy. Enjoy the game




Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:27 | 1608475 Yen Cross
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  Speaking of  " Leaks" Cognitive dissonance...   Well written post.


   Apps. for the post/facto recognition ( been busy)...

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:28 | 1608478 john39
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Wiki leaks has already been outed as a mossad psy-op.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 21:20 | 1608567 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

It may have started as Mossad, but it's now in partnership with other western intelligence agencies.  Expect the non-western 'leaks' to intensify and virtually replace all else.

That aside, I do agree with this assessment on China.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 23:11 | 1608774 Spastica Rex
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Your mom is a Mossad psy-op.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 04:55 | 1609073 e_goldstein
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and your mom is USSA psyops, what's your point?

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:29 | 1608479 Spastica Rex
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Arne Duncan, the Broad Foundation, and Michelle Rhee are feverishly working to upgrade the American public education system to match China's.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 04:58 | 1609074 e_goldstein
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3 Bitches for 50 "dollars?" Can't beat that with a stick.

Sun, 08/28/2011 - 09:52 | 1609204 ToNYC
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Don't fail to keep them below decks so they they can feel the drum beat and row properly or die poorly. One's own drummer is not an option in their win. Please bring extra available women, mother China shorted the mix, oops! Wiki means work hard for the good of the State and don't disturb the workers with the smile of one who dreams their own rules.


Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:32 | 1608481 oddjob
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 Copy and paste education , how very Spalding like.

Sat, 08/27/2011 - 20:31 | 1608484 nmewn
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...(many "solar" longs would have been delighted to know this well in advance of the recent decimation in the Chinese solar stock space)...

My condolences to anyone who followed Leo the Solar Pied Piper down the emotional bagholder path.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!