This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Wikileaks Discloses The Reason(s) Behind China's Shadow Gold Buying Spree

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Wondering why gold at $1850 is cheap, or why gold at double that price will also be cheap, or frankly at any price? Because, as the following leaked cable explains, gold is, to China at least, nothing but the opportunity cost of destroying the dollar's reserve status. Putting that into dollar terms is, therefore, impractical at best, and illogical at worst. We have a suspicion that the following cable from the US embassy in China is about to go not viral but very much global, and prompt all those mutual fund managers who are on the golden sidelines to dip a toe in the 24 karat pool. The only thing that matters from China's perspective is that "suppressing the price of gold is very beneficial for the U.S. in maintaining the U.S. dollar's role as the international reserve currency. China's increased gold reserves will thus act as a model and lead other countries towards reserving more gold. Large gold reserves are also beneficial in promoting the internationalization of the RMB." Now, what would happen if mutual and pension funds finally comprehend they are massively underinvested in the one asset which China is without a trace of doubt massively accumulating behind the scenes is nothing short of a worldwide scramble, not so much for paper, but every last ounce of physical gold...

From Wikileaks:

3. CHINA'S GOLD RESERVES 

 

"China increases its gold reserves in order to kill two birds with one stone"

 

"The China Radio International sponsored newspaper World News Journal (Shijie Xinwenbao)(04/28): "According to China's National Foreign Exchanges Administration China 's gold reserves have recently increased. Currently, the majority of its gold reserves have been located in the U.S. and European countries. The U.S. and Europe have always suppressed the rising price of gold. They intend to weaken gold's function as an international reserve currency. They don't want to see other countries turning to gold reserves instead of the U.S. dollar or Euro. Therefore, suppressing the price of gold is very beneficial for the U.S. in maintaining the U.S. dollar's role as the international reserve currency. China's increased gold reserves will thus act as a model and lead other countries towards reserving more gold. Large gold reserves are also beneficial in promoting the internationalization of the RMB."

Perhaps now is a good time to remind readers what will happen if and when America's always behind the curve mutual and pension fund managers finally comprehend that they are massively underinvested in the one best performing asset class.

From The Driver for Gold You’re Not Watching (via Casey Research)

You already know the basic reasons for owning gold – currency protection, inflation hedge, store of value, calamity insurance – many of which are becoming clichés even in mainstream articles. Throw in the supply and demand imbalance, and you’ve got the basic arguments for why one should hold gold for the foreseeable future.

All of these factors remain very bullish, in spite of gold’s 450% rise over the past 10 years. No, it’s not too late to buy, especially if you don’t own a meaningful amount; and yes, I’m convinced the price is headed much higher, regardless of the corrections we’ll inevitably see. Each of the aforementioned catalysts will force gold’s price higher and higher in the years ahead, especially the currency issues.

But there’s another driver of the price that escapes many gold watchers and certainly the mainstream media. And I’m convinced that once this sleeping giant wakes, it could ignite the gold market like nothing we’ve ever seen.

The fund management industry handles the bulk of the world’s wealth. These institutions include insurance companies, hedge funds, mutual funds, sovereign wealth funds, etc. But the elephant in the room is pension funds. These are institutions that provide retirement income, both public and private.

Global pension assets are estimated to be – drum roll, please – $31.1 trillion. No, that is not a misprint. It is more than twice the size of last year’s GDP in the U.S. ($14.7 trillion).

We know a few hedge fund managers have invested in gold, like John Paulson, David Einhorn, Jean-Marie Eveillard. There are close to twenty mutual funds devoted to gold and precious metals. Lots of gold and silver bugs have been buying.

So, what about pension funds?

  

According to estimates by Shayne McGuire in his new book, Hard Money; Taking Gold to a Higher Investment Level, the typical pension fund holds about 0.15% of its assets in gold. He estimates another 0.15% is devoted to gold mining stocks, giving us a total of 0.30% – that is, less than one third of one percent of assets committed to the gold sector.

Shayne is head of global research at the Teacher Retirement System of Texas. He bases his estimate on the fact that commodities represent about 3% of the total assets in the average pension fund. And of that 3%, about 5% is devoted to gold. It is, by any account, a negligible portion of a fund’s asset allocation.

Now here’s the fun part. Let’s say fund managers as a group realize that bonds, equities, and real estate have become poor or risky investments and so decide to increase their allocation to the gold market. If they doubled their exposure to gold and gold stocks – which would still represent only 0.6% of their total assets – it would amount to $93.3 billion in new purchases.

How much is that? The assets of GLD total $55.2 billion, so this amount of money is 1.7 times bigger than the largest gold ETF. SLV, the largest silver ETF, has net assets of $9.3 billion, a mere one-tenth of that extra allocation.

The market cap of the entire sector of gold stocks (producers only) is about $234 billion. The gold industry would see a 40% increase in new money to the sector. Its market cap would double if pension institutions allocated just 1.2% of their assets to it.

But what if currency issues spiral out of control? What if bonds wither and die? What if real estate takes ten years to recover? What if inflation becomes a rabid dog like it has every other time in history when governments have diluted their currency to this degree? If these funds allocate just 5% of their assets to gold – which would amount to $1.5 trillion – it would overwhelm the system and rocket prices skyward. 

And let’s not forget that this is only one class of institution. Insurance companies have about $18.7 trillion in assets. Hedge funds manage approximately $1.7 trillion. Sovereign wealth funds control $3.8 trillion. Then there are mutual funds, ETFs, private equity funds, and private wealth funds. Throw in millions of retail investors like you and me and Joe Sixpack and Jiao Sixpack, and we’re looking in the rear view mirror at $100 trillion.

I don’t know if pension funds will devote that much money to this sector or not. What I do know is that sovereign debt risks are far from over, the U.S. dollar and other currencies will lose considerably more value against gold, interest rates will most certainly rise in the years ahead, and inflation is just getting started. These forces are in place and building, and if there’s a paradigm shift in how these managers view gold, look out!

I thought of titling this piece, “Why $5,000 Gold May Be Too Low.” Because once fund managers enter the gold market in mass, this tiny sector will light on fire with blazing speed. 

My advice is to not just hope you can jump in once these drivers hit the gas, but to claim your seat during the relative calm of this month's level prices.

h/t Simon via TF Metals Report

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:17 | 1630293 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

1/10 th oz (troy, +/- 2.84 grams (?) check my math someone!) US Gold Eagles will be about $200 now.  Maybe a bit more.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:44 | 1630333 pods
pods's picture

1/10th troy is 3.11 g.

pods

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 22:03 | 1630523 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Thanks. can learn something everyday, even at 55...

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 00:05 | 1630673 sgorem
sgorem's picture

check out sgorem1949 on Ebay. just sold 4 x 2.5 grams(Pamps) for $700.00. Gonna be more come Monday morning for sure. Buy cheap, sell very high amigos.......

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 00:58 | 1630721 Cliff Claven Cheers
Cliff Claven Cheers's picture

Don't buy on ebay, you can save $100s buying through gainsville coins.

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 02:04 | 1630821 bob_dabolina
Sun, 09/04/2011 - 10:34 | 1631268 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

2 year olds.

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 13:35 | 1631581 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

Anyone else sick of this shit taking up their pixels?

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:50 | 1630343 Sgt.Sausage
Sgt.Sausage's picture

==> At that price, everybody can at least buy 1 per month.

Come live in my county. Median household income? $23,500. Average number of kids? 2.8. Try to support a wife, three kids, and a trailer and a pick-em-up on Bubba Joe's $1,900 a month (before taxes and expenses) and tell me "everybody" can do it.

There are folks who regularly, y'know, go in the hole deeper and deeper each month. And there are quite a lot of 'em.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 20:24 | 1630387 snowball777
snowball777's picture

They're called condoms. Can't afford em? Don't have em!

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:22 | 1630171 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Gold isn't becoming more expensive - you are just becoming poorer and poorer.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:45 | 1630334 pods
pods's picture

Bingo.  

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 08:13 | 1631146 N57Mike
N57Mike's picture

can the same be said of a barrel of oil? (it's not getting more expensive, being priced in dollars, and the dollar is getting less valuable)

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 14:55 | 1631745 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Not exactly, since oil is (at least in theory) strongly affected by supply and demand, because we used it for so many things, and both extraction and abundance is far from static. If anything, oil indeed IS something that will in the longterm only "go up" (unless an alternative for it is found). So, if what you want is making longterm profit, then OIL is the place to be, NOT gold!

With gold on the other hand, the only dynamic aspect about it.... that is, the only things that may affect it's supply and demand, is manipulation, and demand as a currency.

Manipulation can in the longterm only happen up to a certain degree - even with tens of years of price suppression, it reacts to fiat inflation in only one direction, even if perhaps less than it should.

That leaves demand as a currency as the only reason, for its exchange-value raising faster than inflation, or its exchange rate going down.

Phrased another way: Absent changes in using gold as money (or not using it for that), real gold value is static. After all, this is why fiat-proponents have such an interest in keeping gold exchange rate in submission... because a raising gold exchange rate can only mean one single thing: Lack of trust in fiat. Same the other way around (trust in fiat instead of gold). Thus, the exchange rate of gold really measures only one thing: Trust in hard assets vs trust in conceptual promises (i.e. fiat).

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 18:01 | 1632295 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for the American public to grasp.  *sigh*

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 20:25 | 1630390 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Who let the Queen of England on here?

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:38 | 1630065 Volaille de Bresse
Volaille de Bresse's picture

" At least our food isn't made out of plastic"

 

Well your cheeses and your burgers are...

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:39 | 1630068 Manzilla
Manzilla's picture

And our women are now too.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:50 | 1630086 Tao 4 the Show
Tao 4 the Show's picture

A point I make often as well. Call me strange, but I'm not turned on by plastic.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:01 | 1630106 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I'm not a "into details" kind of guy.

If a woman has a rack that wobbles if she shakes it. I'll take it.

Even if the bumper has been remodeld.

 

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:18 | 1630294 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

LOL.  Green.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 20:26 | 1630393 snowball777
snowball777's picture

So you like trannies with fake tits?

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 21:12 | 1630452 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

Estrogen can make anybody grow the real thing, even you...

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 21:18 | 1630461 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Not you paper Boy!

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:04 | 1630113 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

don't worry, tao.  since it's made from petroleum, it soon will be too expensive to use anyway...

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:30 | 1630187 knukles
knukles's picture

Can we stick her in the car to burn as an Ethanol substitute if she gets too bitchy?

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:59 | 1630257 Awakened Sheeple
Awakened Sheeple's picture

Gives new meaning to the term Peak Oil

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:04 | 1630114 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

At least we have women.  In China it's something like 6 males for every 4 females.  

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:30 | 1630190 knukles
knukles's picture

Impossible to take an accurate count in Thailand.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:51 | 1630345 Sgt.Sausage
Sgt.Sausage's picture

... where the males *are* females.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 20:12 | 1630370 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Crocodile Dundee check comes in handy over there...

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 21:21 | 1630466 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

That was good for a Giggle Hulk! Thanks. after all this is A HOLIDAY , BEFORE  the European Union Mind F.cks itself next week.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:46 | 1630231 euphoria
euphoria's picture

You should always reduce your fractions or ratios to the lowest common denominator. 

"In China it's something like 3 males for every 2 females."

 I fixed it for you. go back to primary school troll. 

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:16 | 1630288 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

so a threesome is you and....?

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:31 | 1630318 euphoria
euphoria's picture

my left and right hand.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 22:53 | 1630586 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

been out of school for over 20 years now. a little ivy education and i still suck at math. but i can count: one ounce, two, three, four...and that's all that matters.

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 13:44 | 1631604 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

Now, now....fight 'nice.' He probably was educated in the US: Of 30 comparable countries, the United States ranks near the bottom. Take math - Finland is first, followed by South Korea, and the United States is number 25. Same story in science: Finland, number one again. The United States? Number 21.

Could this be why when it comes to the basic economic principles, most Americans have no clue? because they can't 'do the math?'

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:41 | 1630071 Grimbert
Grimbert's picture

Cool a search engine for the cables

 

SDR as reserve currency?:

http://cables.mrkva.eu/cable.php?id=213082

 

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:00 | 1630101 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

WikiLeaks Search Engine http://cables.mrkva.eu/ for the Cables!

Nice Grab Grimbert ! KUdos!!

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:20 | 1630298 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ another Grimbert, great find.

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 07:35 | 1631122 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Nice link. Thanks

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:43 | 1630072 Volaille de Bresse
Volaille de Bresse's picture

For quite some time now I've been thinking the U.S. kleptocracy is in fact a bunch of fat-minded small-time crooks (Kissinger Brez etc) gambling their way into world domination.

 

On the other hand the Chinese kleptocracy is highly intelligent, subtle, anf they have plans for the FIFTY years to come. Gold is obviously one of them...

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:09 | 1630128 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

This is not to be taken lightly.  I was in Shanghai a year ago on a business trip and had some spirited "debates" with Chinese over drinks.  All they kept saying was, "We're learning your language.  We're reading your books.  So keep building your military empire abroad.  We're just going to continue investing and eventually catch up with you."  Fuckers.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:35 | 1630201 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Troll Magnet,

Boy are we in great shape if this in fact true.

< We're reading your books>

They will really be screwed up.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:38 | 1630206 Manzilla
Manzilla's picture

When I was in boarding school back in the 90s my chinese friends would tell us that their government was paying for them to go to school in the US to "learn" about us. They used to laugh and say "we will own you one day". They weren't joking.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 21:27 | 1630476 pods
pods's picture

So by them being the primary supplier of rubber dogshit and holding a couple trillion in worthless IOUs they own us?  Who is the bigger fool?  

China cannot design anything that they have not stolen the IP on.  

Their navy would probably fucking break down halfway here with their reliability.

pods

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 22:56 | 1630589 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

or their naval ships will find a way to collide with their tanks. Made in China, bitchez!

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:42 | 1630074 stephysat28
stephysat28's picture

Ican't afford anymore PM'S but i can afford Chef Boyardee thats going to be money too!

 

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:21 | 1630301 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I bought a few hundred dollars of canned and dried food and a couple hundred pounds of rice grains. I figure the utilities will keep running as it did in Germany and Argentina when their currencies collapsed. My next move is solar panels and an electric car since energy prices will be the next to skyrocket. You just need enough to make it comfortably through a few months of turbulence until things settle down.

If nothing dramatic happens, I'll have lower energy expenses and plenty of food for camping trips for a few years. It's a win-win situation. My take is we're either headed for a depression (austerity)  or hyperinflation (no austerity). It's just a matter of time. 

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:54 | 1630349 Sgt.Sausage
Sgt.Sausage's picture

==> enough to make it comfortably through a few months

It will take *years* to rebuild.

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 13:48 | 1631610 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

I've been doing this too and after my bills are paid, I buy fractional silver with what little is left. I case I need to barter for something I didn't think to have....or pay my rent....

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:47 | 1630339 Esso
Esso's picture

That's the thing, when the crash comes, PMs will become so valuable, that they will be de facto worthless during the crisis. You want this can of Bush's Best Baked Beans? One ounce of gold should be enough. PMs will be a way to transfer wealth through the crisis, but will be lost quickly by people who think they can buy their way out of the crisis rather than preparing.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:56 | 1630350 Sgt.Sausage
Sgt.Sausage's picture

This can't be upvoted enough.

The new "rich" will be those who can *produce* food in quantity.

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 00:54 | 1630718 pods
pods's picture

Silver is for exchange.  Junk silver is easily recognized.  Even slug coinage will retain some value in a collapse.

pods

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:43 | 1630077 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Chairman Ben Bernanke faced-off with Fed-hating Representative Ron Paul during his monetary policy report to Congress on Wednesday.  The head of the Fed was forced to respond to accusations of enriching already rich corporations while failing to help Main Street, while he was pushed on his views on gold.  When asked whether gold is money, Bernanke flatly responded “No.”

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:26 | 1630309 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

That was a bad question to ask. It depends on the definition of money.

One definition of money is "something generally accepted as a medium of exchange" 

At the current time, gold is not generally accepted as a medium of exchange. You generally have to exchange your gold for fiat currency in order to buy products or services around the world. Right now, gold and silver are assets

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:44 | 1630079 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Yes and some idiot on CNBC told Peter Shiff he did not want to buy gold to keep in his sock drawer. If that Idiot would have put 250K of gold in his sock drawer 11 years ago he would now have 1.88 million dollars worth of socks. Its OK you CNBC bubble heads just keep buying your stocks for 20 years of no gain and 3 crashes. 3 bilion Indians and Chinese are just plain wrong. LOL

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:33 | 1630196 knukles
knukles's picture

Were those the guys arguing about Growth versus Value Socks?

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:53 | 1630348 caerus
caerus's picture

they're not idiots...they're shills...ok, they're both

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:51 | 1630088 Kuri
Kuri's picture

Hey, guys : after friday's surge, anyone betting on the next margin hike ? If not, gold at 2.000 $ by the end of this month ? Dunno what to do... Shit... moves too fast for me...

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:20 | 1630299 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

It does not matter...much...eventually the paper market will collapse and the physical (only) will go to a gabillion. Just get some...

Sun, 09/04/2011 - 10:05 | 1631236 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Margin hikes = buying opportunities.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:52 | 1630090 ipud
ipud's picture

Did Denninger get the memo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCwWfSYBwOQ

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:53 | 1630244 Captain Obviousness
Captain Obviousness's picture

Epic.

Unfortunately that's such an inside joke I have no one who would get it to send it to :(

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:24 | 1630304 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

...Denninger is a deflationist and wrong and his followers will suffer....sorry he is not evil...just horribly wrong...

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:53 | 1630091 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Everybody wants to take a bite out of the pension funds, even the goldbugs.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:02 | 1630107 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

If Pensions.. were to buy Gold it would be less risky than MOST of the shit they have pilled into looking for Yeild!

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:04 | 1630112 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

People tend to forget things or maybe they were NOT paying attention before 2007.

IsraCast: WARREN BUFFETT GOES ISRAEL

www.isracast.com/transcripts/070506a_trans.htm - CachedSimilar You +1'd this publicly. Undo

May 7, 2006 – WARREN BUFFETT GOES ISRAEL. American Investor Buys Israeli Company Iscar For $4 Billion. Warren Buffett: 'The Israeli Management ...

?


  • Warren Buffett - Israel


    www.mfa.gov.il/.../Israel.../Buffett+acquisition+of+Iscar+puts+Israel... - CachedSimilar You +1'd this publicly. Undo

    May 7, 2006 – In the largest ever buy-out of an Israeli company, American investor Warren Buffett has paid $4 billion for an 80 percent stake in Iscar ...


  • Warren Buffett's Jewish Connection | Nation | Jewish Journal


    www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=15953 - CachedSimilar You +1'd this publicly. Undo 30 posts

    2006/06/01 - Warren Buffett is not a Jew; in fact, he describes himself as an agnostic. ... 80 percent share in the Israeli metalworks conglomerate, Iscar, for $4 billion, ... Club, a golf club, didn't have any [non-Jewish] members," Lipsey recalled. ...
     Get more discussion results


  • Warren Buffett - News - The Jerusalem Post


    www.jpost.com/topic/Warren_Buffett - Cached  You +1'd this publicly. Undo

    Follow Warren Buffett at jpost.com for real time news, photos and videos. ... JERUSALEM OF GOLD IS Israel's first one-ounce, 24-carat gold bullion coin ...

  • Sat, 09/03/2011 - 20:28 | 1630395 tamboo
    tamboo's picture
    2. Buffett, Warren, United States, 36.0, Berkshire Hathaway[MARANO - HIDDEN JEW - PSEUDO-JEW]

     

    Jew Watch - Leaders - List of Jewish Millionaires

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 23:31 | 1630624 Cliff Claven Cheers
    Cliff Claven Cheers's picture

    Jew envy?

    Sun, 09/04/2011 - 07:15 | 1631103 krispkritter
    krispkritter's picture

    Will you two meatheads knock it off! My scroll thingy is acting up and this is getting tedious! Jeezus, go find some porn or something...

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:06 | 1630121 buzzsaw99
    buzzsaw99's picture

    sez u. the author is salivating over the pension money just like a tbtf banker.

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:18 | 1630153 JW n FL
    JW n FL's picture

    he's a gold salesman..

    he thinks he is using fear to guide people into a purchase so that he can make his paper comission.. LOL!

    I would tell him to hedge half his earnings?? but you cant fix stupid!

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:41 | 1630218 DosZap
    DosZap's picture

    buzzsaw,

    Honestly, IF the Pension Funds DID invest 10% in the metals, then the pension problems would go away in short order.

    They would not have the issues thay have now of being SHORT.

    NOW that they are short, INVEST in PM's, great way to make up  a lot of lost time, and money, in a short amount of time.......12-60 mos.(if that long).

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:45 | 1630225 buzzsaw99
    buzzsaw99's picture

    pension funds are "dumb money". if they start buying gold that would mark the top. or maybe you feel it is different this time and that gold will only go up until the dollar is no more and anyone caught without gold will be forever poor?

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:03 | 1630260 DosZap
    DosZap's picture

    buzzsaw,

    My point was, had they invested, did invest a portion of their assets into PM's, then they would not crawling to Unca Suga, and US bailing them out.

    And yes,things are a damn SIGHT different this time,when in mans history has every civilized nation been in such a frigging mess?.

    NEVER.

    Gold is going to go up from now on, I do not see a downside to it ever again...........................not with a GLOBAL market, and a limited amount to be had.

    Simple supply and demand dictates that.........common sense.

    Regardless if there is anything called a DOLLAR.

    Or America for that matter.

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:23 | 1630300 buzzsaw99
    buzzsaw99's picture

    If that's the case why even bother tracking the nominal price as the author seems to do? What does it matter? In fact, by your argument, one could never pay too much for gold. pensioners have bills to pay, and as such they can't afford to hand goldbugs a tidy profit (which the goldbugs of course would never take because gold is valuable and the usd is worthless right)?

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:28 | 1630312 lasvegaspersona
    lasvegaspersona's picture

    gold is going up.... catching up to where it should be (if not for the paper gold influence) and not coming down...got it?

    It should be much higher NOW...it is going to be THE wealth asset it has always been...as such it will be highly valued....not going to 'top' out...

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:31 | 1630317 buzzsaw99
    buzzsaw99's picture

    I remember the last gold bubble. That's what they were saying back then too.

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 21:35 | 1630484 DosZap
    DosZap's picture

    buzzsaw @19:31,

    I really get a semi kick out of these TOOLS that keep comparing THEN(that Bubble) to NOW.

    There are ZERO parallels, and this time it is ENTIRELY different.We are in a true paradigm shift.

    You (not personally) anyone should not use any of the old figures, and ratios, to make predictions.

    We are in 100% virgin uncharted territory.Anyone using the OLD period, and last Bubble, should be rejected out of hand before a dialouge even begins,it tells me they are idiots,ignorant,trying to sell me something, or a combo of all three.

    Bubbles(true Bubbles) ALL have one thing in common.

    You KNOW when your in one, when EVERYONE is in, or talking about getting in..........then, you get out.

    Not until.

    Sun, 09/04/2011 - 11:37 | 1631355 tmosley
    tmosley's picture

    This time is NOT different.  The equation is the same.  The inputs to said equation, however, ARE different.  "Last time" we had a creditor nation, nations around the world clung tightly to the dollar BECAUSE we were a creditor nation (none but France were even LOOKING at alternatives), China was closed off from the markets, and we had monetary policy that was at least TRYING to stop inflation, rather than trying to create it (ie interest rates were above 10%).  

    The price mover came from a tiny group of investors trying to force a return to a metal standard.  

    Pretty much every input is diametrically opposed to the inputs from "last time"--we are a debtor nation, other nations are actively looking for alternatives to the dollar for that reason (except France and the rest of Western Europe, lol).  China is in the markets in a large way, buying up gold, monetary policy is designed to create inflation (interest rates are near zero).

    The price mover is practically everyone from retail level up to central banks (outside of the West) BUYING. Invert the inputs, invert the outputs.  It's that simple. 

    Sun, 09/04/2011 - 13:18 | 1631532 DoChenRollingBearing
    DoChenRollingBearing's picture

    Green

    OK, I'll buy that as a good summary of the similarities and differences between the 1980 Bubble and what we see now.

    The ROW is buying the physical, we should too!

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:54 | 1630094 Sudden Debt
    Sudden Debt's picture

    So let's get this straight:

    1. China is fighting the dollar and euro by buying gold.
    2. American citizens are buying gold and thus fighting the dollar and euro

    3. Everybody else in the world is buying gold and fighting the dollar and euro

    So who will Bernanke pick on first to try to make a last stand?

    What will they do when it's a broken arrow situation?

     

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:20 | 1630162 JW n FL
    JW n FL's picture

    China (since this cable was communicated) has developed a Euro-Panda Bond! LOL!!

    All I am saying is this arguement is a lil dated and is being had by the help, by boos is better than your boss.. boot lick, boot lick, boot lick.. kind of conversation.

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:16 | 1630287 DosZap
    DosZap's picture

    SD @ 17:54,

    WRONG...................

    2. American citizens are buying gold and thus fighting the dollar and euro.

    95%+ of Americans are not EVEN buying a GRAM of silver, or gold.

    They are in the mkts, or are holding cash in FDIC Banks, in IRA's, and CD's, and 401k's, or annuities.

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:24 | 1630305 DoChenRollingBearing
    DoChenRollingBearing's picture

    The numbers I see most often are only 1% to 3% of Americans own any non-jewelry gold.

    I am seeing more general interest though...  Two non-owners have asked me about gold lately...

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:57 | 1630098 Yen Cross
    Yen Cross's picture

     Hows that Russian " Buy BACK" program working? 7% or there's about<

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 17:59 | 1630099 Oquities
    Oquities's picture

    last 10 years - 6.5ish% return in my ira, but 5x by simply buying pretty gold coins.

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:03 | 1630104 bob_dabolina
    bob_dabolina's picture

    "Now, what would happen if mutual and pension funds finally comprehend they are massively underinvested"

    What would happen if China finds itself overinvested? Ahhhh, it's like the mortgage thing.

    "Better get in now at all time highs. You might miss the oppourtunity."

    "Prices will never go down" 

    What does this sound like?

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:04 | 1630115 DosZap
    DosZap's picture

    bob-d,@ 18:02

    U so Funnnnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeeee............< Better get in now at all time highs. You might miss the oppourtunity>.

    For when,this month?,Or last, or the last 12yrs or the next 10?.

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:08 | 1630127 bob_dabolina
    bob_dabolina's picture

    I dunno. I just think gold can only go up.

    What say you?

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:28 | 1630183 mrgneiss
    mrgneiss's picture

    Soooooo much credibility..........bearish all the way up from $1250 thereabouts.  Focus on the dollar not gold, gold is just a symptom.  Focusing on gold is like being worried about a cancer patients sore throat.

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:31 | 1630191 bob_dabolina
    bob_dabolina's picture

    People like you make me weary of gold. 

    If idiots like you are vested....the top can't be far.

    Sun, 09/04/2011 - 01:04 | 1630729 IQ 145
    IQ 145's picture

    It's not a valid argument; even an idiot can be right. A stopped clock is right twice a day.

    Sun, 09/04/2011 - 02:59 | 1630990 bob_dabolina
    bob_dabolina's picture

    I ended this like 20 minutes ago. Get over it, you're lost.

    Sun, 09/04/2011 - 11:42 | 1631365 tmosley
    tmosley's picture

    I love how two idiots can say the exact same thing to each other over and over, and then one of the idiots claims he has "won" while hte other has "lost".

    The fact that you think you have won in this manner makes you dumber than the other bag of hammers over there.  Sorry, you lose.  Not by much though.  It's the way a potato loses to an eggplant.

    Sun, 09/04/2011 - 12:34 | 1631433 Hulk
    Hulk's picture

    http://trololololololololololo.com/

    /couldn't resist...my bad

    Sun, 09/04/2011 - 13:20 | 1631544 DoChenRollingBearing
    DoChenRollingBearing's picture

    You bad!

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:08 | 1630125 SuperRay
    SuperRay's picture

    it sounds like you're not seeing the big picture..

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 18:12 | 1630137 bob_dabolina
    bob_dabolina's picture

    Gold can only go up. 

    What's your picture?

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:02 | 1630265 RockyRacoon
    RockyRacoon's picture

    The dollar can only go down, Bob.  What's your view?

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:25 | 1630307 DoChenRollingBearing
    DoChenRollingBearing's picture

    + $1880 and green!

    Sat, 09/03/2011 - 20:35 | 1630402 bob_dabolina
    bob_dabolina's picture

    Than I guess gold goes to +infinitiy. The dollar can only go to -forever

    That makes investing so easy. 

    Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!