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Wikileaks Exposes German Preparations For "A Eurozone Chapter 11"
The following cable from US ambassador to Germany Philip Murphy ("Ambassador Murphy spent 23 years at Goldman Sachs and held a variety of senior positions, including in Frankfurt, New York and Hong Kong, before becoming a Senior Director of the firm in 2003, a position he held until his retirement in 2006") "CONFIDENTIAL: 10BERLIN181" tells us all we need to know about what has been really happening behind the smooth, calm and collected German facade vis-a-vis not only Greece, but all of Europe, and what the next steps are: "A EUROZONE CHAPTER 11: DB Chief Economist Thomas Mayer told Ambassador Murphy he was pessimistic Greece would take the difficult steps needed to put its house in order. A worst case scenario, says Mayer, could be that Germany pulls out of the Eurozone altogether in 20 years time. In 1990, Germany's Constitutional Court ruled that the country could withdraw from the Euro if: 1) the currency union became an "inflationary zone," or 2) the German taxpayer became the Eurozone's "de facto bailout provider." Mayer proposes a "Chapter 11 for Eurozone countries," which would place troubled members under economic supervision until they put their house in order. Unfortunately, there is no serious discussion of this underway, he lamented." This was In February 2010. The discussion has since commenced.
Full cable, created on February 12, 2010, presented with no comments, and just the occasional highlight, as all of what Germany is really saying has already been said by us as well.
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 BERLIN 000181
SIPDIS
STATE FOR EEB (NELSON, HASTINGS), EEB/IFD/OMA (WHITTINGTON), DRL/ILCSR AND EUR/CE (SCHROEDER, HODGES) LABOR FOR ILAB (BRUMFIELD) TREASURY FOR SMART, ICN (NORTON), IMB AND OASIA SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 02/12/2020
TAGS: EAID EFIN ECON PREL EUN GM GR PGOV
SUBJECT: GERMANY RELIEVED BY EU SUMMIT OUTCOME ON GREECE
Classified By: ECONOMIC COUNSELOR INGRID KOLLIST, REASONS: 1.4 (B) AND
(D)
¶1. (C) SUMMARY: Chancellor Angela Merkel's government welcomed the decision taken at the EU's February 11 informal summit in Brussels not to provide financial assistance, for the moment, to cash-strapped Greece. German officials believe a bailout is not needed at this time, and that extending a lifeline to Greece would have carried too many risks. One major fear in Germany is that "saving" Greece would lead to other needy Eurozone members expecting the same treatment. Another concern is that extending an explicit guarantee for Greece could weigh on Germany's own good standing in the markets, ultimately raising its borrowing costs. While German government officials do not totally rule out an IMF program for Greece if push came to shove, most consider this eventuality highly unlikely, especially in light of the European Central Bank's strong opposition. In fact, the German government, the ECB and private German economists are downplaying the seriousness of Greece's predicament and its potential impact on stability of the Euro. They agree, however, that the crisis could have longer-term consequences for EU institutions and how they interact with member states that stray off course. END
SUMMARY.
NOT IN THE MOOD
---------------
¶2. (C) Prior to the February 11 EU Summit in Brussels, there was much hair pulling in Berlin over the wisdom of participating in some sort of Greek rescue. No one savored the idea of explaining to German taxpayers, already concerned about Germany's record deficit, that they would be footing the bill for the irresponsible behavior of another country. A Finance Ministry official explained to us that many Germans felt disgusted by the situation in Greece: "While Germans have spent the past decade tightening their belts and improving their competitiveness, Greek civil servants still earn 14 months' salary per year." A recent editorial in the German daily Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ) asked rhetorically whether Germans would need to work until age 69 just to finance early retirement for Greek workers. With important upcoming elections in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia, bailing out Greece would not be a vote winner.
OFF THE HOOK
------------
¶3. (C) The German government was, in fact, "relieved" that the European Council meeting on February 11 decided not to put concrete assistance on the table at this time. Wolfgang Merz, Director for European Financial Affairs, German Ministry of Finance, told us that while Germany stands ready to throw a lifeline if the Greek government truly runs aground, Greece currently has access to capital markets and needs no outside assistance. The key to overcoming the crisis will be the Greek government's implementation of the planned austerity measures, said Merz. Bernhard Speyer, Head of Banking, Financial Markets and Regulation at Deutsche Bank (DB) Research, agreed that the EU struck the right balance: "The decision gave reassurances that Greece would not be abandoned, but kept the pressure on the Greeks by not yet putting cash on the table."
¶4. (C) Stepping in with assistance at this point carried too many downside risks, according to Merz. Legal questions aside, a German or EU bailout of Greece might have harmed Germany's credit worthiness, thereby raising its own borrowing costs. Merz added that a bailout would certainly have set a bad precedent for other Eurozone countries, such as Spain and Portugal, experiencing similar stresses. (Merz acknowledged, however, that these two countries' problems were less acute -- a sentiment echoed by Speyer.)
¶5. (C)Still, there is some skepticism that Greece's austerity program will get the country's finances on the right track, even if fully implemented. Merz said an IMF bail out remained on the table, despite the official line that the situation in Greece could be addressed within the EU.
IMF RESCUE? RESOUNDING NO FROM ECB
----------------------------------
¶6. (C) According to Karlheinz Bischofberger, Deputy Head of the Financial Stability Department at the European Central Bank (ECB), the likelihood that the IMF will be asked to bail out Greece is "zero." Greece does not have a balance of payments crisis, so there is first and foremost no basis for the IMF to step in. Bischofberger added that apart from the damage to the ECB's reputation an IMF intervention would inflict, it was uncertain that the IMF could even succeed in doing the "political dirty work" of forcing Greece to implement a structural adjustment program. DB Research's Speyer concurred, adding that [and IMF intervention] would undermine the credibility of EU institutions to manage a crisis.
REPORTS OF MY DEATH ARE GREATLY EXAGGERATED
-------------------------------------------
¶7. (C) Talk of a possible break-up of the Eurozone is "absurd," according to Moritz Kraemer, Managing Director, Standard and Poor's. He noted that Eurozone membership is still seen as highly desirable, and there was absolutely no incentive to exit, despite the allure of devaluation. Any country that tried to leave the Eurozone would get hammered in the credit markets, exacerbating any underlying structural problems. S and P estimates that Greece's rating in the case of an exit would drop to "BB " or lower, i.e. below investment-grade. Even today, Greece's rating of "BBB " is higher than it was in 1997 ("BBB-") before joining the common currency. [ZH: HAHA]
¶8. (C) While the current crisis may have revealed an "Achilles heel" of the Eurozone, it may present opportunities, according to Klaus Masuch, Head of the EU Country Division, Directorat General of Economics, ECB. The crisis is a "healthy warning signal" that Eurozone members must conduct "sound national policies in line with the agreed rules." It also underlines the necessity of better integration and coordination of member state fiscal policies.
The Euro will come out of this crisis strengthened, he said.
Better and stricter early warning and surveillance systems will be in place, and the Stability and Growth Pact will ultimately be reinforced. DB Research's Speyer agreed, adding that the crisis could make EU member states proceed more cautiously with enlargement.
A EUROZONE CHAPTER 11
---------------------
¶9. (C) DB Chief Economist Thomas Mayer told Ambassador Murphy he was pessimistic Greece would take the difficult steps needed to put its house in order. A worst case scenario, says Mayer, could be that Germany pulls out of the Eurozone altogether in 20 years time. In 1990, Germany's Constitutional Court ruled that the country could withdraw from the Euro if: 1) the currency union became an "inflationary zone," or 2) the German taxpayer became the Eurozone's "de facto bailout provider." Mayer proposes a "Chapter 11 for Eurozone countries," which would place troubled members under economic supervision until they put their house in order. Unfortunately, there is no serious discussion of this underway, he lamented.
COMMENT
-------
¶10. (C) Chancellor Merkel is clearly relieved she does not, for now, have to explain to the public why the German government is running up its own deficit to bail out debt-laden Greece. Still, the German government appears prepared to step in as a last resort if needed and is cognizant that German banks (such as Hypo Real Estate and Deutsche Bank) and insurance companies (Allianz) have significant exposure to Greek sovereign debt. The crisis is also viewed -- within the German government as well as within the ECB -- as a way to exert greater influence over the public finances of profligate Eurozone members. Some Christian Social Union (CSU) politicians are even using the crisis to promote the candidacy of Bundesbank President Axel Weber as next ECB President, arguing that Weber's selection would send a signal that Eurozone stability is paramount. [ZH: Axel Weber was passed over for the post of ECB head and instead former Goldman staffer Mario Draghi was appointed] One way or another, the consequences of the Greece crisis seem likely to outlive the immediate situation. One strong possibility is that German influence over policy in the common currency area will grow.
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Greece would be smart to stop paying their existing debt before this gets put in place!
Delicious!
NOW it's getting interesting ...
Before you walk out of the bar for good, you run up your tab as high as possible!
Yeah, and who is going to save Germany? Mass default bitchez!!
Who saves Germany?
The IMF/US.
Who saves the US?
The BIS.
Then the BIS makes everyone loan their gold to them, and they institute a global currencie, backed with all Central Bank gold reserves; the kicker is how debt owed would come into play, because there is no way China will let the US et al stiff them on repayment of debt.
That is, unless WWIII happens.....
maybe russia will save france and germany because they have such fond memories of those countries?
Don't forget Sweden under Charles XII.
They invaded Russia in 1708-09, with the same results as France and Germany.
Then again, maybe Afghanistan might bail out the world with its trillion dollars or more of mineral wealth.
Pretty much every major power from antiquity to now has invaded that country. Holding it has been problematic for its occupiers though.
Maybe a minor quibble, maybe more: why is the cable dated February 2020?
declassified date?
Don't forget Finland
Mr great musicians, I cry BS! The hole is too deep. They can print till the cows come home and it won't make a difference.
US is bankrupt. Who bails out US?
ANSWER: EVRYONE.
1) US destroys EUR by rigging European countries with US garbage paper
2) US attacks Iran and Korea
3) US shafts China by making USD worthless
Wikileaks: Convenient, as needed to be released disinfo (always a little good info mixed in) but nothing too bad.
ORI
of Leaking wikis and true lies
I am still undecided on this. You have the highly suspicious rape charges against him in which he just lost his appeal against extradition. Many members have left the org. (maybe coerced by threats?) . Financial blockade by BoA, Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, and Western Union which constitutes 95% of Wiki's income. Much of the BoA secret files were destroyed. Many companies will not do business with him. Now Assange and Wikileaks seem to be rendered impotent. Maybe he will be a U.S. puppet when they get done with him. Whose interests were served?
- This interview was with a REPUBLICAN advisor from 2004
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_phillips.html BILL MOYERS: With me now is a man who has been tracking the political and economic history of American wealth for a long time. Kevin Phillips and I were both young men in Washington in the 60s. We were on different sides but had a mutual interest in politics that reached workaday people. He was the chief political strategist for Richard Nixon's victory in 1968 and wrote the bombshell book on the emerging republican majority. Ten years ago his best-selling book on the politics of rich and poor influenced the 1992 elections. In his new book, WEALTH AND DEMOCRACY, he is writing about how big money and political power are the invisible hand in the hidden story of the American experience. Good to see you again.KEVIN PHILLIPS: Well, the plutocracy ... and I think we have one now and we didn't, 12 years ago when I wrote THE POLITICS OF RICH AND POOR is when money has ceased just entertaining itself with leveraged buyouts and all the stuff they did in the '80s, and really takes over politics, and takes it over on both sides when money not only talks, money screams. When you start developing philosophies in which giving a check is a First Amendment right. That's incredible. But what you've got is that this is what money has done. It's produced the fusion of money and government. And that is plutocracy.
BILL MOYERS: But hasn't money always held politics hostage?
KEVIN PHILLIPS: Well, it's usually been very influential. And sometimes it really hasn't been too influential,
But what we've seen in the '80s and '90s is that it's taken control of both parties, pretty much taken control of the culture, and controls the whole dynamics of politics. And that is ...
BILL MOYERS: But the si- ...
KEVIN PHILLIPS: ... a plutocracy in a way that we haven't had before, since the gilded age.
he has enough street credibility to buy him an audience. but where's the substance? according to wiki we are supposed to believe that the state department is run by sophomore idiots who don't know afghanistan from yoghurt.
"there is no way China will let the US et al stiff them on repayment of debt."
I've often wondered how exactly China would ever be able to enforce collections from the US....what are they going to do, start hacking and stealing our technology?
"there is no way China will let the US et al stiff them on repayment of debt."
I've often wondered how exactly China would ever be able to enforce collections from the US....what are they going to do, start hacking and stealing our technology?
Germany about to go full retard & Merkel to use playbook à la Adolf Hitler: radical financial control! Reich will rise from the ashes.
Deutsche Mark bitchez!
Bitches, bitchez!
It'll rain brain tommorrow, biatch ... Get out and enjoy.
Es regnet Hirn morgen, du Penner. Geniesse es.
Sonnst kannst du mich am Arsch lecken mit deinem Scheiß, klaro ?
Aye-aye, Herr Pofalla!
the douche mark may leave a stain
Dewd, you're an idiot. You got it backwards. The EuroZone was created using Hitler's playbook. The EuroZone is what Hitler wanted all along. The people in the Euro have given up their sovereignty. They let a bunch of pinhead, unelected, unaccountable twits pass laws that they must obey. What's the benefit to the people of belonging to the Euro? None, because other nations will still trade with them anyway. It's just another scam to promote the furtherance of One World government. But it's failed in the marketplace; so it's just a question of a slow painful ending, or they admit no more euro and go back to each country's sovereignty.
It came about because the europeans had shortman syndrome and were envious of the freebies that accrued to the usa ( deficits without tears) and its stature in the world by the grace of its reserve currency.
I remember all the arguments for the euro and this was a common one. However it usually wasnt put so baldly.
The Europeans used to say things like "becoming more relevant in the world" and "have more control of our financial destiny."
Hahaha! This is one thing over the last two hundred years of europe imitating the united states that they shouldnt have done. The other thing is imitating our immigration policy thinking it would help them, but I digress. They even followed us on cigarette policy after first harumphing that starbucks and the united states had gone mad...but i digress again. Concealed carry is just around the corner for them if history is a guide....please somebody stop me...hose me down....
While i agree that the popular propaganda used to push the euro introduction was "being a big tradeblock like the other big boys, especially the usa", "freebies" were almost never mentioned..... and at least in germany, there is a reason for this: At that time, the "social net" in germany, was vastly bigger than in the USA at the time.... actually, precisely because of the euro, and to transform germany into an export-addicted nation, those "freebies" were axed significantly.
While one may argue, that the socialist safety net in germany before the introduction of the euro was overblown, the degree to which it was axed (in practice, below existencial legal limit) and the speed, had nothing to do with budget, and everything to do with wagedumping to make germany a pusher inside the EMU.
So yeah, sorry to say it despite of your frontal hate of anything even remotely socialistic for the lower-class.... freebies and the wellfare state had absolutely nothing to do with how the euro introduction was pushed. It in popular massmedia quite simply was "oh, then we're gonna be one big europe... and in terms of size can be like the other big boys, including the USA". So yeah, according to MSM, the euro was introduced for pure eco-penis envy, and nothing else.
Some facts before YOU go full retard: Most German corporations and banks (receiving the greek bailout money in the end) are owned by foreigners. Gold reserves are in the US. 50.000 US troops. No constitution, no peace treaty, it is not a sorveign country.
Everything is the world is owned by foreigners, it's called stocks.
My Plan for Greece: I am available for consulting work.
Step 1. Use next bailout check to issue every adult greek an assault rifle and bandolier of ammo. Cost: ~7 Billion Euros.
Step 2. Insist debt payment check is in the mail. Stop answering your phone; chortle at the angry messages with heavy German or French accent.
Step 3. Strike trade deals with China. Offer them an easy, duty-free port of entry into the soft underbelly of Europe.
Step 4. Translate 'Come get some' into German and French, distribute pamphlets EuroWide.
Step 5. Reissue the Drachma
Final Step.
Enjoy good laugh while at the beach over how you ever got a credit card denominated in Euros at the preferred German interest rate.
Cool idea - just one little problem: It doesn't solve anything about greece's (and the other PIIGS') import-bias.... but actually increases it via the trade deal with china.
On the other hand, china is much further away than germany, so shipping costs may offset the lack of tariffs a bit. In any case, greece and other PIIGS would not be done with their work, just via such an arrangement. Unless they can repair their domestic market and local production, and employ tariffs on unfair exporters, they will still not have a balanced economy.
So, while exiting the eurozone is one important premise, leaving it is just an enabler - you still have to apply those opportunities which an EZ-exit grants.
Greece was able to do much to modernize its infrastructure with projects that simply would not have been financed without the fantasyland that is the EuroZone; if they simply reissue the Drachma at a level of devaluation that makes sense, they are again competitive. All the money they owe, default. This is the lesson to the bankster class - sometimes you cannot use threats and force to have taxpayers bail out your bad descisions...and ya don't like it? Grab a rifle and come on down!
And by no means leave the EuroZone. Make them PAY you to leave. Remember, there is no mechanism to force a member out. You want the drunked up, wild-spending Asia canoodling Uncle out of the house? Pay him, silly bankers.
With a set of balls, Greece could be booming in 1 year while the Eurozone derelict lists hard to port, still taking on water.
For any consulting work, I must be clear I need to be paid in advance, in gold or silver. Nothing personal, you understand.
Okay, you go and try to win the bankster-game according to the set rules of the banksters...... if i were greece.... and actually, also if i were germany (which is where i live)..... i'd rather leave the casino, and built on being autonomous, balanced and souvereign. And that requires the ability to set up barriers against parasites.... something that is not possible while one is in the eurozone, because the whole point of the EZ, is to neutralize all such barriers.
That's not to say that i "know" that your proposal is impossible to work. I do not know that. But if i had to make a bet on the odds, i'd rather go with the "autonomous"-path, even if it may require more work, because there I'M in control of my destiny, instead of trying to win some boardgame designed by others.
By the way, i'm available for "uncommon sense" work. Paid not fully in advance, but in intervals - you aren't satisfied, you don't pay me. You don't pay me, i stop delivering to you - permanently. Don't really care about the currency for now, because i can convert however i want anyways at the moment - plus, i enjoy chatting with my local metal dealer.
In international law, odious debt is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable. Such debts are, thus, considered by this doctrine to be personal debts of the regime that incurred them and not debts of the state.
When you have politicians acting in their own interest while the banks and corporations profit at the peoples expense then this should qualify as odiuos debt.
PARIS - France and Germany, while publicly urging Greece to make harsh public spending cuts, bullied its government to confirm billions of euros in arms deals, a leading Euro-MP alleged Friday.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4616433
In 2008, allegations of bribery against Siemens surfaced after it was found that the company had paid substantial sums to government officials and other companies to win deals, including security contracts for the 2004 Athens Olympics and a contract for the Athens subway. Close to 100 million Euros in bribe money was involved in the case.
http://www.pfhub.com/top-7-political-scandals-in-greece/
Just a few examples of politicians using and abusing the taxpayers then lining their pockets all the while preaching austerity. Audit the debt to determine what is owed and what is odious.
Lots of luck getting that enforced....most of the sovereign debt on the planet qualifies as odious these days.
Which is the reason for the whole problem, isn't it? All the unservicable debt they're talking about, is bogus.
It HAS to be addressed one way another - and it being addressed has nothing to do with consent. It simply cannot work, and the whole showdown right now, is about some degree of sacrifice for the sake of illusions, vs. saying "fuckit!". Mind you, the "fuckit!" part MUST happen anyways... the question is just how much of the "sacrifice"-part happens beforehand.
Phrased another way: The debt CANNOT be called in anyways. All the current game is about, is how much of it can be reigned in.
Any if you think that this implies any "loss" to them, remember: They never lended anything significant. They're just printing debt, and hoping that as much of it as possible is taken seriously - as opposed to getting the treatment it deserves: laughter.
True, but it has been done.
On December 12, Correa said that an interest payment due on Ecuador's national debt would not be made. He declared the country in default: "We are ready to accept the consequences". He described the debt as "immoral", saying the government would take its findings that past debt sales were tainted by graft and bribes to international courts
On June 11, 2009, Ecuador announced that it had successfully bought 91% of the bonds at a cost of 30-35 cents to the dollar. The Finance Minister said that the remaining bond holders will have another opportunity to sell their bonds at the same price of 35%. This move will nominally reduce the total foreign debt by $2 billion dollars (although it might lead to losing access to private financial markets in the future).
Raise the Drachma from the Dead and pull out of the Eurozone and pay all those Banks with Drachmas ( that the Greeks will be able to print with abandon using the Fed as their playbook).
Had dinner with a Morgan trader and the middle market blowhard that was footing the bill on Saturday night. The trader (just promoted to md as his boss jumped to Merrill) asked me what I thought of morgan stock. I told him "I think you guys have 39 billion in unhedged exposure to French banks". He laughed and said "me too.".
germany has much bigger problems than greece
http://expose2.wordpress.com
€ = Farce x Idiocy ^ n
Sorry - wrong operators in that expressionl. CORRECTION:-
€ = (Farce!) ^ (Idiocy!) ^ (n!)
When problems become non-polynomial they are a bitch to solve in real time.
If ever.
€ = (Farce!) ^ (Idiocy!) ^ (n!) + $USD
is the ! just for exlamation or is it actually ! for factorial, because factorial would make more sense
Corzine, mi corazón
Corzine’s Sach’s ex-parson, specialized in rape and arson
With few matches and kerosene, shows what’s behind the scene
Your M.O. is asset coercing, leaving clients crying, cursing
Markets in state of phosphene You too claimed “all’s fine”
Seeing all the stars and light, they assumed the Futures bright
Even though you broker-dealer, you managed to break the dollar
First, you went Zenga Zenga, betting on the Bunga Bunga
You proclaimed: “Have no fear Look, all our hedge is here!”
Then they came the margin calls, Trichet, Merkel but no miracles
Peeked at accounts after-hours You said VOSTRO is now ours
Let’s fake the sign and number lest we fall before November
Had a crush for symbol.PK like Shakira on Gerard Piqué
Ticker’s now domain Pakistani trusting theorem of Modigliani
Claiming this was just an error same as Bush’s war on terror
While nailing M.F.’s coffin everybody heard you laughing
Knew you agent under cover No principal left to recover
Doing God’s work is no easy Ask N. Jersey ‘bout the sleazy
Yet you truly seem so Zen Your heart must be frozen
“Jon, me gustas mi corazón You’re a Goldmanite garçon
Time to sacrifice the minion for our enterprise dominion”
Clients said we want no haircuts someone oughta be in handcuffs
Rub your a** with this wasabi and give us some Hammurabi
Cramer came to their defence “Selling is a capital offense
Fringe Blogs and Tyler Durden over’em lays the entire burden”
Obama’s their poster child Banksters, always on their side
“TOTUS, TOTUS on the wall Am I da best in recent poll?”
“No, there is bolder than y’all His name is Congressman Paul”
“Can’t we just mark to unicorn and avoid the orange uniform?”
“The Indian guy with diabetes takes the fall for what this is”
“We need something mo’ formal just to get us back to normal”
“Tell SEC I need you Gonzo investigating lines of Ponzo
Whose stick is really bigger Sarkozy’s or Justin Bieber?”
get a beat behind that and you'll sell a million copies baby!
"collapse" by akashik ancestorz, a new favorite tune:
>>http://youtu.be/sVQE0LPgOIY
Very nice.
“Can’t we just mark to unicorn and avoid the orange uniform?”
+1
and yes, you can!
Che?
I thought you were dead.
Awesome.
Achtung Merkel Baby!
My parents file for chapter 13 in 2008........after maxzing out their credit to buy gold and silver HAHAAHAA
gold and silver bitchez.
Children should be seen but not heard.
Learn to shut the fuck up.
"Never pass up a good opportunity to shut the fuck up"
There, fixed it for ya
Hands down m8 ...
It's getting about that time.
Tic
Toc
Thanks a lot, Tyler!
and thankyou "WikiLeaks" -
god bless you, Julian Assange
thankyou 2x tyler
No surprize. Contingency plans require cogent thinking. The Germans are far, far, from being consumate dumbshits.
I know government is a piece of shit but they do have a lot of people sitting around. It seems it would be reasonable that every government has contingency plans for such things as the end of the Euro. Not that their plans are grounded in reality but I'm sure everybody has a plan. But like Mike Tyson once so eloquently stated, "everybody has a plan until they get hit".
Yes, and I would further surmise that the German's likely have their contingency plans closer to reality than some others. At least closer to German reality that is.
As if the governments are actually running the show.
Yes, no fun to walk into a Tyson upper cut. Pinklon Thomas anyone?
I wonder if Merkel will bite someone's ear off if it gets nasty?
Bay of Shit: Fuck you!. You and the others fuckers are trolling the "King of the Charts", who sent you?, I am sure the fucking Turd did. When the predictions came true 90% will leave Turd's shity blog. Ain't donating shit to the coward Turd. I will happily put some money on the other blog. (if I have you in front of me, I would punch you on your small brain you got)
It all makes too much sense...Stall Greece with circus-like politics and meanwhile try to figure out what to do with Italy, Spain, Portugal....
Greece is nothing compared to the rest of those countries....
Did you forget about Ireland? Their public debt is $860 billion, if I recall right. That would be equivalent to $60 trillion in the U.S. Something tells me we haven't heard the last about little old Ireland.
OMG THE FINANCIAL MARKETS ARE GOING TO CRASH AGAIN!!! Per zero hedge the markets are always one headline away from collapse.
The market/status quo can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent, bitchez
Dumbest fake lawyer on this board.....
Not a fake lawyer BITCH
LOL- of course you aren't- you have the club avatar... You rock!
You're dumb enough to be a lawyer, tho- take the Bar exam, get back to us, Arnie....
Been licensed for two years. Instead of attacking my "qualifications" why don't you try attacking the merits of my comment???
Two whole years, eh? Wow!
Psst, Arnie- REAL lawyers don't refer to themselves as "being licensed"- you're admitted to the Bar Associated and registered.....
Butchers get "licensed", DMV workers get "licensed"
Go chop me some loins....
Your comment has merit? You ARE delusional.....
Quit being so fucking tacky. You junked my comment now please respond before I turn your ass to grass nigga
LOL- why of course, Your Honor.....
Not a judge, but you can refer to me as counsel if you wish.
Oh, that's right- you'll get your Judgeship next year, my bad...
How long before you make Pope?
Will never make judge, especially after the numerous arrests for "disorderly conduct" which will occur over the next few years.
Tsk, Tsk- that temper won't keep you in the Bar long.....
Plus your Mom will be pissed and ground you for, like a week, dude.
You lost to Jcaz by being baited this much. Thought you would like to know because you have not figured it out yet.
I agree it is taking longer to than I thought and I do get collapse fatigue and burnout from time to time. Best to go live life and keep preparing.
This shit house is coming down. If my preps are not used by me, then my son and step daughters will surely need them. On a long enough time line...
No one ever points out that "doomers" have the best return at market for the past decade....I wonder why?
Jealous, bitchez?
The market/status quo can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent, bitchez
He is right about that. What he seems to be wrong about is that he thinks the market will be irrational forever. Let him think what he wants. I'm still buying gold. People like him are helping me.
Whisper,
I'm a gold bug myself. Just having some fun with this burst of trollfest. In the end all ponzi's blow up.
Your first post alludes to the recent ZH posting concerning CME margin reguirements causing the market to crash on Monday. The CME change was vaguely worded and the TD who wrote the post interpreted it to mean margin reguirements were going up, taking a less risky and conservative approach. In fact, CME has clarified to say the margin reguirements have been lowered to accomodate moving accounts from Mother Fucker Global (founded 1783) since it is now in bankruptcy court. You see Subway JD, that particular TD author has not learned the fine art of thinking like a wall street criminal. CME has correctly identified what appears to me to be a bunch of first class suckers (ie MF account holders) and they don't want to let them slip away, so they are doing everything possible to keep those suckers in the game.
Nice take, Whisper. True. The last person you want leaving your casino is the drunk whale throwing bennys onto the craps table.
"I'm gonna grab me a couple of cocktail waitresses and pull me a Fredo."
I remember during the early and mid like of the Dot-Com bubble people saying the sky is the limit. They said the same thing about the housing bubble during its expansion. I remember December 2006 to June 2007 when it became quite apparent the housing bubble had indeed burst. I live near ground zero in SW Florida and it was un-mistakable the music had completely stopped. Most people didn't understand what had happened till years later, but I did.
Patience is a virtue in economic calamity porn, but make no mistake about it, the worldwide credit bubble is collapsing. Speaking from experience, don't wait till it clobbers you over the head to realize what will inevitably happen. You don't want what is coming to come to soon, and it IS coming soon, believe me because I already went through this type of thing twice before and lost nothing, but got a nice paid off home out of the deal in preparation for the mother of all busts.
You can't remain solvent for the duration so don't gamble you life savings away.
My thoughts exactly.
For me, this site has done wonders for my sanity. Folks here see the same writing on the wall that I see. Bickering about timelines seems to miss the point entirely.
Any delay in what most see as inevitable is a gift, and for my part, I hope to be able to make best use of this time of relative stability before the fall.
Excellent point geekgrrl. I feel the same way about this site. It's a blessing to know I'm not crazy or "cynical" for having this awful hunch that this country is on an unsustainable trajectory.
And you are right that no one knows how long it will take until it all collapses. I think you're wise to get educated now on how fucked up the situation is so you can take your own austerity/self-preservation measures NOW while it is still relatively easy vs. waiting until the shit gets real and then being with all the other clueless people and panicking.
DOUCHE!
You'll definitely earn the title of Judge, since all the dumbest fucking leeches... er, um, lawyers are always addressed as "Your Honor".
His Holiness?
No love for lawyers... a physician myself. but I have a license.
At fucktard, esquire: gold and silver have done nicely since I've been around ZH. In addition, ZH (and all the commenters) have shined a light on the fraud that is the money and the markets. So, your comment is full of crap.
I'm long Au and Ag too
Harvey Two-face, is that you?
Nah. He's the Riddler. Two Face has sex with women, the Riddler only diddles himself.
Harvey Birdman, Cartooney at Law
Long Paper Au, and Ag or LONG holding phyical is all we at ZH here need to know.
Only physical, no crimex paper
Two years? You're just a kid. What do you know about investments? Do you even have $5,000 in an investment account?
Lawyer? I thought it stood for Junior Dipshit.
Given the tone of ZH articles, you would think the SPX was trading at 800. Instead it's at a lofty 1250.
Yeah, 1250 is just so huge..... It's a bull market, right?
This is really Robo Trader, touting his Netflix takeover of the world again.......
QE 3 coming by the feb/march. After all,who the hell will buy the trillions in issuance of treasury paper?? Thus, markets will either stay at these levels or continue to rally. When Italy blows up that will be a different story. But I fully expect to see the powers that be throw trillions in fiat at Italian debt crisis.
Hey. Lawyer loving his Fiat masters.
Jim Hendrix, Isaac Newton and Poetry aren't your thing.
I get that.
What you don't get
2012 is 6 weeks away.
Your smart phone probably allows you to ignore,
all religion, mythology and wisdom,
but the Universe is about to put everyone
in their rightful place.
So hump your profits while you still can.
The year 3000 is about to arrive 988 years early,
and you mammon worshippers are so
primative.
I forgive you.
Now be a real man,
if you can.
I forgive you either way.
You know not what you do.
2012 will be a bitch of a year. But it wouldn't surprise me if the spx is still straddling 1100 lol
will they be offering free smoothies too?
Yea, I think my brother loaded up on Netflix before it tanked.
Of course he would never admit that...
1250? And how does that compare to 10 years ago? What about adjusting for inflation? How about compared to gold, silver? Or ammo?
Stocks are a racket for suckers.
They are, but there are times when they do perform well.
Given the haughty tone of your posts, you would think that you would at least know that the markets are not representative of the economy as a whole, especially not when they are artificially propped by lose monetary policy.
You have to understand, ZH is working on a 'Reality' level, where gravity really still works.
The market levels you note operate(currently) on the Wiley Coyote 'off the end of the cliff still standing' reality.
That's the difference. It's like we don't set our clock back so to speak.
pleassse
Wow 1250. The same place it was in 2005
guns, bullets.
ALL lawyers are fake entities....they ignore common law while practicing admiralty law.
That's okay....your secret is safe with ZHers!
the markets are in a state of collapse. don't you read zero hedge?
Been reading ZH since early 09 bud. And no markets are not in state of collapse.
Yup, the market for Greek bonds.is holding up nicely.
Yup. We didn't really need to spend tens of trillions of dollars bailing out the US Banking Houses. European bonds are only at all time wides because, er....um...well it isn't a big deal. Unemployment isn't at all time global highs since the Depression. Peak oil production will be a flash in the pan when Solyndra generates enough energy to power NYC. We aren't fighting wars all over the world or anything. Yup, all is well.
House of cards is mighty shaky bud.
This sums up your world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcSlcNfThUA&feature=related
Normalcy Bias
Tavistock Institute
And the ZH group think momos come out in force. Keep them coming LOL
C'mon nobody actually believes this guy is an attorney do they?
Even though that doesnt take mush these days.
His avatar is simply his zodiac sign - Libra.
Who reads a web site for around 2.5 years and starts to post 1.8 years in?
This tool is full of shit!
I apologize for my brother.
Play along and tell him the markets look just fine...that his Netfix stock should be splitting soon...
Okay, this is a good start. You need an awesome avatar. Do it.
Dood, been here since the blogspot days, when wall street pro was pimping his 10 oz silver bars. Subprime is simply a newer handle. I love ZH but sometimes like to pick a fight With you permadoomer fucks. All in love
GoldenMiddleFinger? Is that you? How the hell are ya buddy?
Spalding Smails......remember him?
Hmmmm... you may have something with that guess. Ask him if he delivers furniture...or if he ever got his $100,000 starter fund up and going. The lawyer thing would not work if it is him.
I stand corrected. It does sound like Spalding.
Well, is that you Mr Smailes, you shit talker you?
No this is subprime. You can find me at subprimejd.blogspot.com
MsCreant, I think you need a blog. Everyone else is doing it!
;)
I agree, Mr. Lennon, MsCreant would be highly worth reading on a more regular basis. On any subject.
I gave you a thumbs up for surviving the gauntlet of bitch slaps ! I grant you honorary Jew status for moxie under fire ! Monedas 2011 Unofficial keeper of the moxie awards !
Why thank you kind sir!
I gave you a thumbs up for surviving the ... <red/> ... !
All I saw was red on pretty much every post by JD. So thank you. Perhaps your superpower of annointing winners could be better applied at the federal level. God knows the budget could use a super fucking hero right about now ...
Regards,
Cooter
Hey I like spalding and he was right about silver hitting the wall.
But that aint spalding. He only comes in nowdays for the parabolic moves.
I thought he left after BAC's parabolic move downward... I booked it.
shit, I miss Cheeky...
ID's and avatars dont matter to a lot of us. I may change again too unless I can find more tops to call.
I miss the days of posting under anonymous. Oh! The flame wars back in those youthful days.
tct on gold: Thu, 12/30/2010 topcallingtroll
"Looks like a top to me. I'm calling it."
tct on silver: Mon, 01/17/2011 - 12:27 topcallingtroll
"I am telling ya the intermediate top is in. if berskanke has any control left then we are headed for a deflation scare soon. expect silver to retrace to about 24 with an all out effort. they dont call me topcalling troll for nothing."
Better yet tct, just stick a fork in it, yer done.
ZH educates the broad public regarding matters of global monetary policy and international finance.
To take the sum of ZH's contribution, which is, at its core, being a leading edge breaker of news, but in such a way that non-industry participants can follow along, and reduce it to a stock index price target is, well, asinine.
That last sentence may be illegal, but I tried to channel my inner TD and use as many grammar constructs as possible in one sentence.
I love my ZH. After two years on this site and I far more educated, knowledgable, and prepared than I would otherwise be.
Regards,
Cooter
Most of us are wondering why any fool would be thinking to stick a toe in that market.
Some of us are quite happy watching it burn slowly. Who fucking cares about the markets, that shock value was so 2008. Now we're talking about countries crumbling, burning and being over thrown.
Countries that most of population thought they would never see fall, it's just so amusing watching people running around thinking that this is about a market crash now when so much more has been revealed.
CPL:
People who wanted to make 15% in October did pretty well.
People who want to make the same between now and 12/31 may do well also. (May not.)
Some remain nimble and take a contrarian view towards headlines.