Will The Fed Buy EFSF Bonds?

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Fri, 11/25/2011 - 08:56 | 1912491 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Yes.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 08:59 | 1912497 knukles
knukles's picture

Stop it you guys! 
Don't give them any more bright ideas.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:03 | 1912504 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Ask Peter how this 'plan' helps deal with the solvency issue since this is clearly another liquidity solution? Also, will there be Unintended Consequences? 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:09 | 1912512 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Sooooooo....basically the US taxpayer should bailout Euroland.

 

That's full tilt retard there.

 

Our ancestors crossed an ocean to get away from those guys.....and that was a really long time ago.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:18 | 1912555 living on the edge
living on the edge's picture

The Fed needs to stay the fuck out and better yet needs shut down. There should not be a private entity with access to taxpayer funds that could even contemplate this ridiculous idea of a bailout/fuck the US citizens. The US taxpayer does not need to finance Europe.

The solution for Europe is simple. Default... 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:27 | 1912572 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

Default? Like Greece? Sure... will they allow it next time around and will it be a credit event? You know, i'm starting to see a method to this insanity. Hm... does that make me qoo-qoo?

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 10:40 | 1912725 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Ah yes, not suprising to see more synchronized diving.  When these purchases occur, my kinky fantasy is that the Fed books the EFSF purchase as an expense (gifts) rather than as assets, because they will NEVER be paid off.  Rolled, sure.  Paid off, never.  

Rename it the LEFSF (Long Emergency Fake Solvency Fund).

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 11:14 | 1912830 IBelieveInMagic
IBelieveInMagic's picture

You folks are operating under the false presumption that the current global financial system is not to the advantage of the US. You are completely wrong on this front!  Net, net it is hugely advantageous to the US (the distribution of the spoils is a different matter).

The US Fed is going to, at the end, do whatever it takes to support the current arrangement. Period!   

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 11:31 | 1912886 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

The Fed knows that a euro collapse will undoubtedly send a great deal of this cash money into commodities and if that happens it is the end of the line.

It will buy because it must...

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 14:15 | 1915471 samslaught
samslaught's picture

The ECB won't print money because they know the FED has to.  The credit event will hit us just as hard as it hits Europe.  To say this is a European crisis is missing the point.  This is a global crisis and worse yet for the US is that the EURO actually has less flaws than the dollar (no mandate for full employment for 1 nation and hasn't defaulted twice on gold) and will most likely replace it as the dominant reserve currency if TSHTF.

The current system has been great for the US, funny that now that the FED is trying to save this advantageous system because of the failure of American politicians, the American people are screaming at them to stop.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 12:34 | 1913082 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Referendum!

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 13:23 | 1913243 DocinPA
DocinPA's picture

Better yet, balance your effing budgets and pay your bills.  Then you won't need the ECB, IMF, Teh Bernank or anybody else.  Morons.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 13:27 | 1913249 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

There should not be a private entity with access to taxpayer funds ...

More accurately, the Fed is a private institution that can tap people's wealth and loan it to whomever they want.

Non-redeemable paper currency like the US dollar is a simple easy way to take people's wealth without permission. Simply by printing more currency the Fed grabs a little of your wealth and my wealth and everybody's wealth and loans it to someone.

Why is the Fed taking a little of your wealth and my wealth and everybody's wealth? Because printing more dollars increases the amount of dollars in circulation (inflation), reducing the value of dollars in your pocket, my pocket, everybody's pocket.

Banks don't create wealth. Banks merely borrow wealth from others and loan it out at interest.

In a gold redeemable currency where banks can't print more currency at will, wealth is borrowed from others and they earn a small amount of interest on it.

In a non-redeemable currency like the US dollar where banks can print more currency at will, they don't have to borrow people's wealth and pay interest on it. They can take it. Without permission, without people even realizing it.

THAT is why central banks hate redeemable currency and insist on non-redeemable currency. It allows them to take people's wealth without asking, without people even realizing it, because they take a tiny about from everybody using that currency. The theft is equally distributed among everybody using that currency.

And yes it is theft. Because the wealth is never given back.

Giving the wealth back requires the Fed to bring those dollars back in and take them out of circulation, reducing the amount of dollars in circulation (deflation), increasing the value of dollars in your pocket, my pocket, everybody's pocket.

When has the Fed ever reduced the amount of dollars in circulation, increasing their value?

Actually it has happened occasionally. Decades ago.

But over the 98 years of the Fed's existence the amount of dollars in circulation has grown steadily, and in the past three years has grown rapidly. It's why the US dollar has lost 1/3 of its value since '08.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 14:58 | 1915582 samslaught
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you can redeem your dollars for gold any time you want.  The FED isn't stealing your wealth.  They are debasing a medium of exchange.  You are only losing wealth if you are using that medium of exchange as a store of value.  A historically foolish thing to do.  In fact they have gone one further for you.  They have maintained an artificially high value for our dollars allowing you to purchase vast quantities of other people's stuff, including gold, for a big discount.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:20 | 1912558 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Just to show you that they harbour no bad feelings for your ancestors running away from them (and beating them in a revolutionary war), they are now willing to forgive you and let you send them some money ... errr, LOTS of money.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 11:46 | 1912778 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Fair enough, but you forgot the bit about this "all being orchestrated by the banking families/class".  Follow the interest on the debt and who ultimately holds the debt, it all leads to the same few.  They have burnt Europe to the ground before, and they will be all too happy to do it again (along with every single other indebted country that has any sort of valuable physical assets or resources.  The real masters of the world, who are sitting on the other side of all this debt (collecting interest - money for nothing), are very much aware of the laws of Nature and physics and just what the growth limitations are.  They will give humanity a choice, lower your standard of living or kill each other until our growth model starts working again.  The only question that really remains is will history repeat itself or will the world wake up to collectively realize that no agency or institution can guaranty anything regarding your quality of life (especially if you make stupid choices) and work together to throw off the chains of debt?

As optimistic as I would like to be, 6000+ years of human history would suggest otherwise. 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:35 | 1912594 oogs66
oogs66's picture

yeah, but we sent our young there to die to save them from themselves in 1944

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:56 | 1912647 Manthong
Manthong's picture

The Fed IS them.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:52 | 1912636 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Peter figured it out...US bail out Euro...

Man, everyones minds are snapping. 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 11:12 | 1912823 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

So I admit that I read his article at 'stupid' speed and maybe didn't comprehend it, but the impression I have is that he is speculating on a POSSIBLE move? Not ADVOCATING for the move?

I don't really see his move taking place. It does seem that fear is desired right now and cooperation between the western and eastern axis is not so likely. China & Russia stepping in to participate in the can kicking exercise that would allow Europe more rope while supporting obaumma's reelection?

If it does happen we are quite truly fucked.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:09 | 1912522 The Limerick King
The Limerick King's picture

 

 

The FED has no choice but to buy

The Euro contagion is nigh

The will buy with both fists

Using QE and Twists

These Elites are unwilling to die

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:15 | 1912528 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Let the elites die......they're not really elite to begin with.

Stop bailing them out.

Let the fail ensue.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:23 | 1912565 i-dog
i-dog's picture

They are a bunch of religious zealots and should be exterminated to prevent them [in]breeding further!

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:39 | 1912573 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

Never bring up extermination where Europe is involved.....that's just poor form there.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:53 | 1912624 The Limerick King
The Limerick King's picture

I must apologize for broaching this topic.....I was a little too quick on the rhyme.  I don't advocate violence in any form. I meant it as a metaphor for the "system" that allows for the misappropriation of wealth through deep regulatory and political capture. In a just society, both the rich and the poor get richer together....this has not been the case for the past 30 years.

Normally I would edit this type of faux pas, but the replies won't allow me to do this....perhaps Tyler could have some new code written to enable this?

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 10:15 | 1912685 Hulk
Hulk's picture

I agree entirely LK, that is, with your Limerick. OFF WITH THEIR FUCKING HEADS !!!

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 10:23 | 1912699 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Yup....right after we note that you are one of them.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 10:42 | 1912741 APC
APC's picture

Apology accepted!  Dang, well said your highness.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 10:59 | 1912791 The Limerick King
The Limerick King's picture

Much thanks APC.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 11:17 | 1912841 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Perhaps you could pay for that?

Just 1/2 kidding.

Good comments.

Peace.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 10:54 | 1912776 JungleJim
JungleJim's picture

Of course not, it's much better to slowly strangle the honest working population.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:14 | 1912543 knukles
knukles's picture

Gene!  I was gonna ask exactly that, but we must restrain ourselves, for MDB as arisen to bless us with wit and wisdon.  I shall defer accordingly.
(But of course it is all merely monetization wrapped in the guise of sophisticated financial engineering salving the hubris of evil.)

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 11:49 | 1912935 donsluck
donsluck's picture

I think you missed the point. It's a prediction of a possible response to the Euro crises which, I think, could happen. It's not an attempt at offering a true solution.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 12:11 | 1913016 LynRobison
LynRobison's picture

Discussions of potential "solutions" are completely irrelevant. No one who reads ZH gets to decide any of this. The powers that be, the cabal, the power elite, they are the ones who are deciding what will happen. Now that everyone and every institution is deeply in debt, and now that the cabal owns that debt, they are going to intentionally crash the financial and monetary system to destroy everyone's ability to pay those debts. Then the cabal will own everything. In the wake of the destruction of the Euro and the Dollar, the cabal will come out with a world currency, and they will be the Lords of the entire world. We will have a feudal system with the cabal at the top.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:06 | 1912513 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Give them bright ideas? As if doomer redneck day traders could give economic advice to top Ivy League economics grads at the Federal Reserve? I have long been an advocate of this policy, and i am confident that Dr Bernanke will come around because the EFSF needs help. Many of our financial institutions have exposure to EU sovereign debt, including some of our PRIMARY DEALERS. These institutions must be protected AT ALL COSTS because they are vital to American prosperity and freedom.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:09 | 1912523 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

+1

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:22 | 1912546 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

Wouldn't be funny if it wasn't true.

Oh wait! But, I'd really really like to see what ISDA manages to pull out of it's ass when the next EU country defaults. "Voluntary under threat of nuclear fallout" comes to mind.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:20 | 1912560 dcb
dcb's picture

you have it so right except for one word:

Many of our financial institutions have exposure to EU sovereign debt, including some of our PRIMARY DEALERS. These institutions must be protected  destroyed AT ALL COSTS because they are it is vital to American prosperity and freedom.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:22 | 1912562 imaginalis
imaginalis's picture

Top Ivy League economics grads are well trained to follow instructions in herd like fashion. 

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:32 | 1912585 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

Paul Krugman......former Enron economic advisor. Should definitely listen to him......Google it if you don't believe me.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:48 | 1912623 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

i remind everyone, ivy leaguers brought us this mess.

thank you sir, may i have another??????

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 09:55 | 1912643 itstippy
itstippy's picture

Precisely, Mr. Million Dollar Bonus. Our Primary Dealers are the bulwarks of Truth, Justice, and the American Way; they must be protected at all costs. American economic health and growth is entirely dependant on the health and growth of our Primary Dealers.  They MUST remain robust and firmly in exponential growth mode.

I would, however, argue that it is outside of the Federal Reserve's mandate to purchase EFSF bonds.  It is clearly the U.S. Defense Department's domain, being a matter of National Security.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 10:08 | 1912670 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

"I would, however, argue that it is outside of the Federal Reserve's mandate to purchase EFSF bonds.  It is clearly the U.S. Defense Department's domain, being a matter of National Security."

I appreciate your perspective, and I agree that it is certainly a matter of national security. But the MF Global incident shows that a Primary Dealer bankruptcy can have a significant influence on price stability and hence I believe this issue is firmly within our Federal reserve's dual mandate.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 10:17 | 1912688 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"MF Global incident ...... influence on price stability"

That's just conjecture. One bad apple. Won't happen again. Next time will be different.

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 10:46 | 1912738 itstippy
itstippy's picture

Your point about the unfortunate MF Global incident's impact on price stability is well taken; I had overlooked that important aspect.  My bad, and I see why you earn 7-figure bonuses.

The MF Global issue is not yet resolved, but it's in good hands and an equitable ending is not in doubt.  Since the price stability concerns are domestic in natuie, clearly intervention by the Federal Reserve and/or Department Of Homeland Security would be both desirable and fully justified.  

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 10:51 | 1912767 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Good point. Maybe some TSA groping through Corzine's pockets may turn up a few hundred billion of the "mislaid" funds?

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 11:00 | 1912797 JungleJim
JungleJim's picture

Then by your own reasoning and the Patriot Act, they are Terrorists and can be prosecuted. maybe even executed !

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 11:54 | 1912959 donsluck
donsluck's picture

I noticed your use of the word "incident" when you actually meant "heist".

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 11:35 | 1912899 XitSam
XitSam's picture

"I would, however, argue that it is outside of the Federal Reserve's mandate to purchase EFSF bonds."

And when has the Fed actually concerned itself with its Congressional mandate?

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 10:18 | 1912691 TuborgGold
TuborgGold's picture

At ALL COSTS includes the bankruptcy of the nation while the ivy league geniuses get tens of millions in compensation for running the whole system into the ground.  there is no more american prosperity and freedom.   we are slaves to this system and  the sooner the whole thing burns down the better. 

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