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Will We Never Learn? Subprime Auto Loans Accelerating (Again)
It is remarkable that we greedy ignorant short-term-focused human beings never seem to learn that driving forward and looking in the rear-view mirror can only end in disaster. Forget 'dancing while the music plays' or other such 'defenses' of herd ignorance, the most recent data regarding Auto Loans is simply mind-blowing:
- Subprime borrowers received 56.46 percent of loans on used cars in the quarter, up from 52.70 percent a year earlier.
- The average loan-to-value on new cars was 109.55%
- The average used car loan-to-value ratio rose to 126.62%
- 77% of Subprime Auto Loans are for a period greater than five years
As Yahoo notes, citing some monkey, "Despite the rise in subprime loans overall, there is still a strong sense of managing risk. Because the overall lending environment has improved, lenders are making loans available to a wider range of customers."
Via S&P Auto Loan ABS report:
So not only are the auto manufacturers stuffing the dealer channels full of inventory (and choking off supply - a la Chevy Volt), they are so desperate once again to get consumers spending that they will give credit to anyone - with the defense that defaults HAVE BEEN low. I hope the reader can sense our incredulity that once again this complete and utter lack of understanding of the loan business cycle by supposedly intelligent individuals who are more than willing to offer credit (and on the other side - accept huge debts for short-term living standard improvements). </rant>
Perhaps not so surprising - sure enough - (h/t Andrew P) - Auto ABS are weakening already... As Santander and Honda's Auto ABS see annualized losses rising...
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Why learn? There will be a bailout If TSHTF.
-
[Cheesy Jingle]
We know you'll be blown away...
By the everyday savings you get...
....at Timmay Geithner Chevrolet!
[voiceover] Next to the Piggly Wiggly on Route 4
Do junkies ever learn anything from their addiction?
Going out and getting a nice $ 30,000.00 no-interest loan and shiny new GM car can enhance one’s esteem and feeling of self worth. Additionally, it serves to improve the economy and community by increasing business.
And even if you are a slug and default, you are contributing the debt balloon Ponzi and creating opportunity for Repo men of both of the financial and vehicular towing varieties.
It’s a Win-Win proposition that is downright patriotic.
My self esteem has been in the crapper for years now but a $30K GM car isn't going to help with the ladies too much.
A 100% financed $300K Ferrarri on the other hand will make me feel 10X as good, get me laid 10X as much and more importantly help the economy 10X more...
Being Patriotic has never been so easy...
http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/sitemap/sm-ferrari-financing.aspx
Don't worry that's coming soon.
And most importantly, it brings the Great Reset one step closer, one car at a time
<--< YES
<--< NO
slewie opinion poll: should US Mint-produced gold and silver coinage be restored as LEGAL TENDER in the US as per the US Constitution and not subject to the fuking "collectibles" and OTHER TAXES?
yes or no? VOTE!
...please... L0L!!!
Sounds broken-windowish.
And even if you are a slug and default
.... no no no, defaults are NOT happening!! Loan re-working is the new NEW!! Cash flow is never a negative. Cut the payment "in good faith" - so what if the muppet is paying for 9.75 years? GM has CASH FLOW.
Think of it as "perpetually leasing" your own used car!!
America still has some financial chicanery up it's sleeve.
Of course they're inteligent. The idiot is the one who signs on the bottom line.
GM Ramps Up Risky Subprime Auto Loans to Drive Sales | Investor’s Business Daily | 07/27/2012
"Is GM taking on more risk than is safe given our uncertain economy?" asks Edward Niedermeyer, TheTruthAboutCars.com editor-at-large. "They may be trying to goose short-term sales with subprime lending to boost its stock price, which is tied to the government getting out of its GM investment."
GM still owes about $26.4 billion in direct aid to the federal government. The Treasury owns 26.5% of the automaker, or 500 million shares. The stock price would need to be 53 to recoup those taxpayer costs.
http://news.investors.com/business/072712-620090-gm-risky-subprime-auto-loans-fuel-sales.htm?p=2
pigg-wigg? you must be from south carolina, yah
[quote]
"Despite the rise in subprime loans overall, there is still a strong sense of managing risk. Because the overall lending environment has improved, lenders are making loans available to a wider range of customers." [/quote]
A case can be made that lenders are making loans available precisely because NOT ENOUGH borrowers with good credit exist! Denile, NOT just a river in Egypt.
Still waiting for the two-for-one, buy-one-get-one-free auto deals.
Not long now.
Personally I'm holding off until hyperinflation makes my used car swell up to the price brand new.
... a brand new loaf of bread.
I've seen buy one get one half off ads for cars on TV here locally (Portland, OR). It was buy an F350 or whatever truck and get an econobox for half off.
Our local Kia/Hyundai dealer ran one of these a few years ago. Buy one of their top end models at MSRP and you got the low end model for free...I crap you negative.
We'll know we're there when you can buy a Ford Focus at full list price and they throw in a F350 with the deluxe floor mats and naked lady rear wheel mud flaps. :)
You cropped out the bumper sticker that says:
I'D RATHER BE DRIVING A STRIPPER
I had to. My mother reads Zero Hedge. :>)
Great idea. If they rename the Chevy Vote maybe they can sell some.
Gas grass or ass... Nobody rides for free...
Our local Kia/Hyundai dealer ran one of these a few years ago. Buy one of their top end models at MSRP and you got the low end model for free...I crap you negative.
Not anymore, Hyundai owns 38% of Kia, and the both(esp Hyundai) are taking market share like a bitch,and most from Toyota, and Honda,Acura.(Genesis,and the top dog),Sonata's are every where.
Their quality is rocketing up, and their warranties are far better.
And their CEO said this is just the beginning.
Around here, the top two Hyundais are not dicounted at all and they are flying off the lots.
Salesmans paradise, IF they can get inventory to sell.
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Does "nicely equipped" mean "comes with a house"?
No. It comes with a domestic partner though.
As a general rule in life, never pay over $40,000 for anything unless it comes with a doorbell.
I was supposed to get a door bell with my SUV?
Damn. I'm calling GM now.
It's called OnStar.
When GM showed how they could remotely turn on and off the vehicle (among other things) I realized we were in BIG trouble.
Ding Dong......Big Brother calling.
Colorado 0A5599, free & clear
Nothing like $67,000 that becomes $50,000 when you drive it over the first curb cut.
I'm driving a '97 Lincoln Town Car that I bought for $6k. I discovered the window sticker in the glove box and it was originally $41k. That's like $60k now if Ford bothered to make the Panther platform anymore.
Cost per mile, price per pound, physical size, safety features and even by MPG standards (I get 24 hiway) there is nothing comparable. I don't catch much pussy with it but the silver hoard grows every day. I do get admiring glances from older car-service guys in the city, though.
Used Detroit choomwagons, bitchez.
@ $67K it is ur house.
For that kind of money you could pick up a nice used motorhome.
Denali spelled correctly is Denial.
Nice. Very nice.
Can I steal that from ya? Or would you rather I just owe ya. :>)
At this point, I see no difference...
Tour through any ghetto, you'll see lots of people driving new GMs. Been going hard for about 6 months now around here.
Let's all go to a GM dealership, get some rides, and have a big "accident" on some major highway. The wreckage can spell out "FUCK BERNANKE" when viewed from the news choppers.
Bloomberg radio yesterday was interviewing some auto analyst who was celebrating the sales numbers with this kind of thinking:
"Remember, this is a big ticket item. People may say they are depressed, but they are making big commitments and what they say and what they do are not the same thing. They clearly have confidence in the future."
YOU FUCKING MORON! THEY AREN'T GOING TO PAY THAT BACK!!!
Yeah I've never heard of anyone making a big-ticket purchase without regard for future commitments because they were depressed and listless. That's why folks experiencing a mid-life crisis tend to become frugal knitters, right?
"Yo, Jerome and Kanisha both got new Escalades playa'!!"
you have an ugly mouth in any language
which is an even uglier mind
I seem to remember seeing [on this site] that the dealers are actually backing these loan programs themselves somehow. The banks won't lend you money any more unless you are wealthy and don't need it. I have a credit score of just over 800, and the bank actually cut my access to my credit line by 60%, citing risk as the primary factor. Understand now, that my credit line was less than half of my accrued savings, which by the way the bank is in posession of. WTF? So, now we're going back to handing loans to mirror foggers? Brilliant plan.......absolutely brilliant plan!
@Ancona
Correct. The dealership group that I used to work for writes their own loans through an administrative intermediary. The dealership is the bagholder here if these loans go south. This program can be a big moneymaker for the dealership, though, because the interest rates are astronomical compared to new car sales (10 to 12% versus 2.99 and 0% programs on new). Still, if/when the loan goes bad, it's the dealer holding the paper. Dealers never worry about tomorrow.
Same happened to me through Bang of Amerika.......fuckers!
They need you to have more money in the banks so they can afford to lend it out to people who can't afford it. Don't ask me why!
The average is 579? Man they are really financing some crap if the average is 579.
579? Forget the bad loans, they are arming these idiots with cars and pointing them at us.
Monkeys are back in control
It's ok because it helps the unions of Obama's GM. Relax, hope and change takes time.
Always buy used and pay cash.
And drive it 'til it drops.
several years ago, I had been in the same car for 11 years (had bought used, cash originally). Still ran ok but stuff was just literally falling off and I was sick of it. My local firehouse was also the spot where the regional FD's would practice putting out car fires. I was going to donate it so long as they would let me know when they were gonna burn her and maybe bring a friend and six pack. Was telling a friend of my plan at the bar, dude overhears me and wants to know does it run, he's looking for a POS. Out to the parking lot, he offers me $300. SOLD!
Geez, I thot I was tight until a coworker told me that when it rained his truck had water splashing thru the floor board. Guess a can of Mighty Sealer could have fixed that.
Buy slightly used,(save that 24% hit drive off lot depreciation) and finance it for 1%, and when the SHTF, they repo it, who cares anymore.
can't wait until oil is $300 barrel these guys will be pushing their cars to work at mickey d's
Mobile McDonald's franchises? Great idea. Throw a fryer in the vast backseat and get it done.
Collect the grease and turn it into biodiesel.
WVO is actually getting hard to find in my neighborhood.
You can drain the grease directly into the fuel tank. Or, reuse it.
Filtered WVO is only good for low-tech diesel engines. Six liter Navistar turbodiesels, not so much... the repair bills on modern vehicle powerplants, whether highway, ag or construction, make it too risky.
I do know a local farmer who burns WVO in a generator. His place smells like a combination of cow shit and chinese noodles.
Thanks for that anecdote. Made me laugh.
Pull the drivetrain and hitch up a mule team.
http://us.altermedia.info/images/car-horse.jpg
Those cars will be gone looong before $300/bbl hits.
Who needs reality when there's the American Dream to pursue. Yes, you can have it all. For nothing.
seems like all the section-8 neighborhoods have late model high-end mercedes and bmw's, seriously. i can't believe it. but then if you don't have to pay for food, medical, housing, and have the maximum get-over going. you can probably afford it, also escalades and lincoln navigators with 26inch rims, and hummers.
they would turn their noses up at a gm product.
most of these people get multiple benefits, then work on the side for cash, or peddle snacks or drugs, run a backdoor flea market, etc.
They need those nice cars so they can travel to more affluent neighbords to sell their stolen goods and drugs. Working for cash is the way to go. Accept anyone with half a brain would convert that cash into something a bit more solid.
the us gov is backing these bad loans so there isnt any risk for gm or ford. i have never seen so many temp paper tags on vehicles on the road.
-Doesn't Matter, -I Don't Care, -I Forgive you, -We Can Idopt Some, -Well, Nobody's Perfect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWS2NVX6VP0
Wages matter! I am sure this will end well. I mean the government now has onstar tracking in all of it's "investments" right?
Repomen need to work, too.
I suggest that they start demanding payment in silver after the repo as possession is now the only law that matters. All that work risking your life for more paper promises.
"As Yahoo notes, citing some monkey" some Tylers are quite crass, and funny too (I chuckled at the quip, Tyler), just hope the Yahoo author guy's not black, or here come the racees screamers and the racists to fill this thread to fuck.
whoa----don't monkeys pick stocks too and aren't they just as good as the pro's?
I haven't financed a car in 20 years, always pay cash. Fuck the banks and Fuck You Bernanke
What's it going to take to get you into this Cadillac today?
I needs a monthly of $399.
How do you feel about a 13 year auto loan?
Can I rolls my negative equity from my trade into it?
Sure, no problem.
Where do I sign?
I can only get you the 13 year if you sign up for the 100K mile extended for an extra $49 per month.
but but Phil La BLOW told me that everything is great in Detroit?? CNBC doesnt distort the facts do they?
Only Bob Piss-on-me and Steve Lies-man tell the truth. And don't forget to wait around for the Money Honey (not so much) tell you that we're off our lows.
Kim kardassian coming up now on CNBC (really!) gotta go...........
someone else once posted this vidoe here on zh before.. but perhaps its applicable to this story..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6Oc3WizIRg
These loans are only subprime if looked at individually. Bundle them up in to a single package and look at them again, viola! AAA baby. <sarc>
Can I package a derivative with that?
Leverage is the new torque.
"... lenders are making loans available to a wider range of customers."
lenders are dropping their knickers (standards) ever more desperate to find ever more sub-standard higher-risk customers to keep their commissions rolling in
there, fixed it
er, when i say "fixed" i mean 100% assured trainwreck is yet to come
/1 year from now on
Nobody saw it coming!
If an out f control government can get funding at ridiculously low rates of interest, then why should sub prime car loans be a surprise.
The rule in the US is that the worse the pay off for the nation the greater the support. For proof of this look at expenditure on war, college education, and housing.
This is the kind of crap that frosts my pumpkin. My son bought a car from one of the vulture dealers outside of Camp Lejeune. Of course, the price was much too high compared to its value. But, what really bugs me is that Navy Federal Credit Union gave him a 5 year loan (9% interest) because he had 3 years of guaranteed pay. Well, he got out of the Marines and hasn't been able to find a job. So, I have been helping him try to get Navy Fed. to lower the payoff before it goes into repossession. The car is a '99 Honda Civic (piece of crap) and the outstanding loan balance is $7,800! The blue book is a fraction of that.
Have him go out and run up a CC for some long lasting items of value and then lump it all together and go bankrupt.
A method I've seen is to take the CC to local casinos and get cash advances. Walk out of the casino and go buy valuable items like tools or farming items. . . things that have decades of value. Put them in YOUR (not his) garage. He must pay cash for these items.
Then there is no papertrail for the money. "Lost it at the craps table." The bankruptcy will go smoother.
Do it now, while he's young and before the system unravels, which it will soon. At least he'll have some tools and farming implements with which to earn food afterwards.
Not sure what you do for a living but the way you think may quailfy you for a career in investment banking.
+21 Black Jack Advice !!!!
It is a tough World for the financially illiterate, They remind me of those Hillbilly Girls getting off the bus in NY, somebody with something shiny catches their attention and it is all down hill from there, many of them spend their lives being slaves to one man or another until death releases them from their burdens.
The financial illiterate spend their lives making their payments, payments which take priority over the food for the table, a slavery enabled by debt, why don't people teach their children to think? --- They can't, they don't know how to think themselves, too much thinking...Dangerous, Trust your TV, these are the people you `Know` and love, and who, in turn, like the Greeter at Wally's, love you Too, they've got things figured out so you don't have to! Relax, trust and believe, this is your Dream, enjoy it!
I arrived in the Atlanta area in 1983 and noticed that there weren't a lot of new cars being driven. Suddenly, in 1992, new cars were everywhere! What happened in 1992 to cause this? Just wondering...
Look at what ZIRP gets you.When Banks and lending institutions can get free money from the FED at .05%, It doesn't matter how bad a persons credit is because the 18% interest rate leaves a 17.5% buffer. The roaches have become the customer of choice and the 800 score Mr. Goodie two shoes becomes the unwanted business. Why you ask? Because when running a financial ponzi scheme with mark to market at whatever you want the 17.5% return of interest on the books looks alot better then the cash buyer producing a 0% return. Their propping up the books on the back end of the deals to make the industry " LOOK" like it's breathing again. Just another way to hoodwink everybody for another today moment, which by the way is the only thing propping this economy up at all. So many today moments are going to turn into tommorows crisis nightmares.Solving a debt crisis with more debt is not going to work however solving a bad debt crisis with more bad debt is simply ludicrous. I suspect the basket of good fico scores holders has become so small now that this will become the only game in town until it isn't.
"I suspect the basket of good fico scores holders has become so small now that this will become the only game in town until it isn't."
Correct, and discussed by many as simply capital mis-allocation and mal-investment as nothing of real value is being created or innovated. Such a monetary system will die eventually because in the real world, real innovation and real commodities must be exchanged in order to survive. Basically, modify your statement as follows;
"I suspect the basket of good fico scores holders has become so small now that this will become the only game in town until the currency dies and a real war breaks out."
- The average loan-to-value on new cars was 109.55%
- The average used car loan-to-value ratio rose to 126.62%
these aren't really "car" loans at least in part, sub-primers seem to financing other parts of their lifestyle with the word "car" pasted on top
...new car (fridge/oven/lawnmower/kids schooling/holiday/golf membership) anyone?
It looks like a new 52" flatscreen TV, but we'll call it 'Cadillac' for the purposes of this very honest and true disclosure banking mandate form!
Why not, the President calls it a "Green Energy Revolution", you and I call it bailing out your campaign sponsor bum-chums for another one of their stinker gone wrong business deals.
Maybe its just being back from the loing weekend, but the stories on this site today truly seem like they should be on The Onion. This is great stuff (good work Tyler), scary that its real life but, it certainly has a decline of the Roman Empire feel to it. Except a lot worse.
Everything in life is somewhere else; and you get there in a car. - James Thurber
I ride a bike to work.
Poor lonely truck sits in the garage all week long, hoping I will use it on the weekends.
What do I care about new car loans...??
'Monkey cited' lol.
You built that, now sell it? What's the problem job creator. I see you want more tax cuts?
that made me crack up. I envisioned some CEO standing in a parking lot the size of a dozen football fields, filled with identical vehicles, saying, but, but, I built these!
They can build all they want, eh? I ain;t buyin. Done with debt. Crash the system. Refuse debt. Cash only, or walk/eat cold cereal/live out of a car.
We'll see who blinks first.
I think you meant to say that "lenders are making loans available to a WILDER range of customers"
Rhetorical Question.
Music never stopped in 2008-2009. Just slowed down a bit.
Fourth anniversary of Lehman......and TBTF is the LAW of the land.
Mission Accomplished.
Correct, if you can't physically touch or defend that asset or investment you don't fucking own it.
Gotta to pick up my SNAP beer...err groceries in something bitchez!
Seriously, this is not any surprise...FHA loans with nothing down for houses is the only trace of life in that market and this confirms suspicions on the auto market...between channel stuffing and subprime car loans there is no remarkable return there either. Really is frightening that after 4 years there has BEEN NO RECOVERY. I am not blaming Obama as lord knows he has played the free money for banks, free loans for homes and cars better than any Republican but the reality is scary...
bundle the crap loans and sell them to fidelity and calpers. problem solved.
if you are a lender you can always repossess the car and not worry about crash in auto-market. Heck you can even export the car is needed.
we are ruled by underpants gnomes. that is the only rational answer I can come up with as to what kind of "plan" these people have
selling cars to people who can't pay for them is just good business. they pay sticker price. give you a trade in you rape them on. make a few payments. all profit for you. then you rerpo the car, which you then garnish there wages for the non payment. resale the car again to another sucker and the whole economic miracle starts anew.
By and large, it has been shown that more affluent households have a good understanding of financial management and contain their average debt burden. In contrast, the debt service burdens of lower income families continue to worsen. These folks are the ones the greedy merchants and bankers are targeting, it now appears. Why?
According to Peter Warburton in Debt and Delusion, "Research undertaken at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York suggests that consumers worry about the burden of their debts only when they suffer a loss of income or are starved of access to additional credit. This helps to explain why personal consumer spending seems to be relatively unaffected by the rise in the debt service burdens of so many households. Personal credit quality can deteriorate for a long period before latent problems reach the surface"
And the debt delinquencies roll on and on…
Free money can be free.
An enormous amount of Fannie-Mae money was/is given out for loans with little down. Many are upside down from 2009 and the government's cash for buying houses program.
Know of people buying homes when their upside-down on their present home. They plan on renting out the upside-down home.
Lot's of opportunity for fraud here people. Need banks to appraise non-existing properties for Fannie-Mae jumbo loans and send the $$$ to overseas accounts.
It's become a huge game of fraud and deception now! Nobody big is going to jail.
"As yahoo notes, citing some monkey"
Holy shit that was under the radar funny.
I smell a TBTF bailout coming again. Rinse and repeat.
The same people that created the housing fraud are up to new schemes. It's what happens when nobody goes to jail and fraud is allowed to continue.
On to auto and the biggie student loans.
typically, the interest rate on subprime car loans is 25% on used cars--I know as I know someone who is in the business and is proud they charge 25% becasue without them people could not buy cars..he also said if they miss a second payment they repossess the car.
Sinc eso much is interest, teh debt usually is not paid down until near the end.
We've got a guy named Paul Blanco (not from the Bronx) working subprimes in the SF Bay Area. People drive around with their "Paul Blanco Fresh Start Program" licence plate holders insistent on telling the world they're deadbeats.
It's really comical.
Heh. A friend of mine sells used cars. He's been killing it, the last year or so. I think he grossed $8k this month (in Colorado). The used market is the place to be, if you're a salesman.
GM, you are going to be so fucked in a few years time, so fucked up that you will have to suck the government's teets again for bailout monies...
Obamaamnesty opportunity loans, figure 1 million instant hungry customers that want to buy the family their first big SUV, and they got $5000 cash saved up, they can put that down on a used Suburban or Armada.
%100 of the cash is instantly skimmed as "fees", the rest of the risk is passed unto other investors.
Easy money, Obama style
Will they take FaceBook stock as a down payment?
Man, I feel like such a "looser" paying cash for a car every ten years. I could really look super cool in a new pimped out SUV, but no, my fucking conservative parents had to pound this shit in my head about living within my means. Fuck, shit, hell.
Hoopti backed securities.
THERE WILL BE NO MARKET BOTTOM UNTIL PEOPLE HAVE TO PAY CASH.
You mean if its smokin, that ain't good?
It's other way around, you give subprime loans with subprime money.
Loans to people who will not be able to pay it back eventually....
very profitable...for a little while.
I don't know why you guys are so upset.
Can I assume that these loans are being tranched and sold to mayors of small Norwegan towns?
With all the inflation over the last 4 years, the pool of credit quality buyers will continue to dwindle. This will continue for all large purchases. There also doing this in housing. Let's face it, the middle class is doomed!
"Cause here at Dream Act Motors, we cheat the other guy and pass the savings on ... TO YOU!"
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