Bitcoin Surges To New Record High, Ethereum Slides

Despite record bubble heights, hoards of futures shorts ready to pounce, funding ISIS, and being a "highly speculative asset," it appears the world's citizens are willing to place some assets in the safety of a decentralized, non-fiat asset.  

Bitcoin is surging once again as Asia opens, to new record highs at $17,661.

The catalysts for the most recent surge is unclear though today saw a Senior VP at eBay suggest they are "seriously considering" Bitcoin integration and Israeli PM Netanyahu suggest Bitcoin could replace banks -

“Is the fate of banks that they will eventually disappear? Yes. The answer is yes. Does it need to happen tomorrow? And do we need to do it through Bitcoin? That’s a question mark.”

Ethereum appears to be taking the brunt of the rotation.


Interestingly it appears the relative price level of 22 ETH per BTC is some kind of support/resistance for now...


Dutti Monkeymitts Thu, 12/14/2017 - 22:29 Permalink

Having been skeptical about bitcoin and not wanting to get involved in this so called "bubble" for a long time, I have finally started to take the plunge into bitcoin thanks to the futures market.I know that the above statement alone will earn me many downvotes, just as I always received them over the years when I went counter the ZH mainstream of bearish opinions regarding stocks.I'm not a techie, but have decades of investing experience, including futures and options. For those with an open mind I suggest considering a few of the many facts which others have also pointed out before me:What held me back for a long time was for example that unlike PM's, bitcoin has no intrinsic value and has no practical use in, among others: jewelry, electronics etc.However when people point out that bitcoin is backed by nothing, then they should realize that even the major currencies are only partially and in a very opaque way backed by gold (rehypotecation).I look at bitcoin first and foremost as a store of value but with additional benefits like easy international transportation (unlike gold).Just about 80% of the finite supply of bitcoins has already been mined/produced.Unlike in other futures markets,  for example in  gold, where banksters and governments can go short practically unlimited amounts, they don't "own and control" bitcoin and therefore bitcoin can not be surpressed by the futures markets. Good luck to those who want to go short bitcoin, except for short term trades.Just as with gold, I own physical for the long term but I also trade gold in addition through futures and ETF's. Same strategy and similar weighting expected for bitcoin in my portfolio.Of course, timing is important, so if possible, I use setbacks to build a larger position and at the same time I am also willing to risk 100% of my bitcoin investment. Not that I expect such a massive setback, but psychologically I don't want to be scared out of my position, should a drastic setback occur.

In reply to by Monkeymitts

Mine Is Bigger tmosley Thu, 12/14/2017 - 23:08 Permalink

You obviously did not read the report from Deutsche Bank that Zero Hedge ran this morning.It's Japaneses men in their 20s and 30s who are driving the bitcoin surge./sarc(I think it's an overstatement x 1,000) But seriously, do you really think $175mln would be enough to push up the bitcoin price by nearly $1,000?I am not yet convinced. It does not seem to add up.

In reply to by tmosley

shitshitshit Mine Is Bigger Fri, 12/15/2017 - 01:21 Permalink

the noticeable thing with bitcoin is that everytime the dynamic falters and all should be crashing down at exponential speed, there is a little miracle happening because just at that moment someone buys x millions $$ buying that thing and things start pumping again. Like a junkie on steroids. It happened consistently over the last couple of months, hence the total absence of any retracement in the rise of the price.think it over, should I be an investor with a lot of $$, why would I buy before the crash and lose leverage instead of patiently waiting for the bottom of it? -None of this makes sense.This will not end well...The only questions left are:1- who's behind that?2- what are the circuits to amplify these moves?3- what's going to be the top? -Fixed or market related? 

In reply to by Mine Is Bigger

Spaced Out shitshitshit Fri, 12/15/2017 - 05:36 Permalink

Historically, in fact, "the noticeable thing with bitcoin is that everytime" the price went up significantly, there was another announcement by China/Russia/Dimon/central banks/economics experts/you name it, that bitcoin is a "ponzi/scam/bubble/crash-risk/threat to global stability", etc...... to try and dent enthusiasm. Everyone got wise to that bs.Your questions are inane, especially "what's going to be the top"?

In reply to by shitshitshit

aurum4040 tmosley Thu, 12/14/2017 - 23:11 Permalink

Where did you get that information TMosley? I heard same causing massisve pumps over laat few months. This was another pump and dump. They are trying to hold it up against better crypto and tech that is insanely cheap to begin w. The BTCers fear for their business anf their they should. For example XRP now at .80, people are starting to wake up to the fact that BTC is a joke in terms of efficiency, cost input and actual technology. I bought a chunk of ETHBTC. at 0247, sold at 0456 and bought back at 0347. There is too much demand to dump BTC for alts at these levels. Its insanity. This tether situation could be the end of many exchanges. Tether is nowhere near backed one to one. Once btc coorrects and it will correct down to the 12ks.  

In reply to by tmosley

itsaugood Dutti Thu, 12/14/2017 - 23:17 Permalink

Totally respect your decision. Its your $$. But remember, WHEN, not IF, a crypto comes along that IS backed by somethng, all other cryptos will go zip.Have you ever thought about the reason why Bitcoin (aka digital gold) is so easy to move around the world compared to phsyical gold??  

In reply to by Dutti

Dutti itsaugood Thu, 12/14/2017 - 23:31 Permalink

I have hoped/waited for over a year that there would be some kind of "bitcoin" showing up that could be backed by gold. Finally I realized that just like with fiat currencies, fine art etc. it is only necessary that enough people place a value onto such a medium that can change ownership.

In reply to by itsaugood

itsaugood Dutti Thu, 12/14/2017 - 23:49 Permalink

So true. But you can only fool enough people for so long. Sorry to all of those who have read my following post before but its worth repeating.If stocks certificates can be put on a block chain, the shares of stock, or fractions of shares of stock, could be moved around, from one person to another, just like bitcoin. Just as bitcoin can be divided in to 100 million parts the share of stock could be divided into 100 million parts. You could transfer $100 worth of stock just as easily as you could transfer $100 worth of bitcoin. But unlike bitcoin, when you transfer that share of stock someone is actually receiving $100 worth of ownership in a real company  When you transfer bitcoin you are just moving unreal digits backed by nothing. The stock cert becomes money and the stock cert conveys real ownership in a real company, and the counter party risk issue is gone as the company is not likely to be stolen.   The same idea could be used with anything of value that does not need to be stored by a trusted third party, such as farmland or a parking lot. For those who prefer precious metals as backing picture this: A cube of cement 100 foot on each side, mixed with 1 million ounces of gold. The cube would be stored (built) just about anywhere and operational costs to maintain would be pretty low. Could be partially buried underground, or showcased in the lobby of a Las Vegas hotel for example. Stealing it would be impossible without being noticed.  

In reply to by Dutti

Dutti itsaugood Fri, 12/15/2017 - 00:40 Permalink

Good examples, thanks.I am however not agreeing with your perception of "fooling people". I'm sure that you have come across the analogy in the world of art: Back then old folks found that THE BEATLES or ELVIS were just terrible. A PICASSO painting was labeled "degenerate" or "my kid could have done this". Value is in the eye of the beholder and can change over time.Regarding the value of stocks: some make it, some go eventually to zero. The stock in a previously successful manufacturing company whose expenses are now higher than it's income, is in trouble. All the backing by assets/machinery will not save it.

In reply to by itsaugood

itsaugood Dutti Fri, 12/15/2017 - 01:11 Permalink

All of your examples are of something real and tangible. Bitcoin is not. Yes a real company can go out of business but the investors were willing to gamble on a greater return. And yes beauty is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to art, which by the way, I have spent a lot of money on during my lifetime. (They say that great art never quits paying dividends, so true).  If you are purchasing something as an investment, like bitcoin, I have no problem understanding that the price of bitcoin my continue to go up (until it doesn't) and it may continue to be a great investment. Where "fooling people" is concerned is in the belief that there is actually something of value in bitcoin. You hear so many people say it took them a long time to finally "get it" and they are now believers in crypto. The reason it took them so long to "get it" is because they know it makes no sense, but everyone else is making money so why not me. Honest question: Do you really believe in the long term viability of bitcoin or do you just want to make a quick buck (which is fine with me)?   

In reply to by Dutti

Dutti itsaugood Fri, 12/15/2017 - 01:51 Permalink

Currently for me a base position in Bitcoin is longer term, but I also trade the volatility. If, in a few months or years the Bitcoin market proves me wrong,  I will of course reconsider.I am one of those who felt "finally I get it". Being hung up on "value or backing" and other growing pains of crypto held me back. For me its not at all: "because they know it makes no sense, but everyone else is making money so why not me". Now I look at it  more like a service: A smartphone is not mainly valuable because of it's physical parts, but because of it's software/engineering and accordingly the capabilities it offers. Same with the internet in general and with crypto.Futures contracts allow me to use a much more efficient trading vehicle than an exchange like coinbase. 

In reply to by itsaugood

Crazy Or Not Dutti Fri, 12/15/2017 - 06:16 Permalink

There have previously been several attempts at a unfixed denomination coin.Isle of Man did one in Plat.… then there was this guy who tried to float his own silver coin (it can only go up) ponzi scheme. your ear to the ground, later in 2018, I have a feeling your dream may well come true. ;)

In reply to by Dutti

The_merovingian Dutti Fri, 12/15/2017 - 03:25 Permalink

“take the plunge into bitcoin thanks to the futures market”“I'm not a techie, but have decades of investing experience, including futures and options”“Just as with gold, I own physical for the long term” First of all, your post is confusing; do you also own some Bitcoin or just futures contracts?Second, it’s either bullshit or you’re a moron and I say that respectfully as a trader myself. If your intent is to invest in BTC long term, buying futures contract is more costly and simply inefficient, I guess you’ll find that out for yourself when rolling over your contracts.Finally, if you’re able to open a futures contract account and manage it, getting a hold of bitcoins and trading them should be easy as pie, even if you’re not a techie.

In reply to by Dutti

Dutti The_merovingian Fri, 12/15/2017 - 09:07 Permalink

Sorry for the confusion. My "real" bitcoin position is the base, although at the moment still smaller than the futures position. However, I will slowly convert higher amounts into "real" bitcoins - don't want to lose out on "forks" etc.Futures contracts are better vehicles for trading: I trade at IB and pay a commission of about 0.07% to get IN AND OUT of a trading position. Also, I have "real time" quotes, place limits and get instant trading confirmations. Bid and ask spreads are, depending on the time of the day  between about 0.1 and 0.5%. Futures premiums are volatile, but are currently negligible. Intraday bitcoin futures volatility is 5% or more. What's not to like?

In reply to by The_merovingian

OutaTime43 Buckaroo Banzai Fri, 12/15/2017 - 00:50 Permalink

And, what makes ETH superior to BTC is its unique contract scripting.  BTC is just a rare crypto that is essentially another currency. But, its a "dumb currency". ETH allows the use of dAPPS to provide functionality and other uses for the currency. It can form contracts, provide credability of the other party, and other very interesting applications in finance, etc.   It will eventually overcome Bitcoin in acceptance in my opinion. It's also faster when it comes to transactions. 

In reply to by Buckaroo Banzai