Jim Chanos Reminds People Why He Hates Tesla

Content originally published at iBankCoin.com


Chanos has been so wrong on Tesla and for so long, I think he's starting to lose his mind. After all, what's not to like about Tesla? Look at those revenues. Beautiful yes? Now here's the losses. Oh. At the heart of his short selling thesis is the fact that Tesla cannot book a profit and also, and perhaps most importantly, there is significant competition coming for Tesla in 2019, in the form of a Porsche electric sports car. Makes sense, right? Valuation wise, the stock hasn't been this cheap, on a price to sales basis, in years. The stock is up 58% in 2017.


jcaz Erek Thu, 12/14/2017 - 15:01 Permalink

Run the numbers, and it turns out that Elon will be just fine when the stock goes to zero.   Chanos is right- unless Musk reinvents the battery (and he hasn't, because all of his battery talent has left the company),  it's not possible for this company to make a profit under the current structure.    I believe the plan all along has been a pre-and-post bankruptcy play-  Musk won't even bat an eye.......

In reply to by Erek

gmak adr Thu, 12/14/2017 - 14:13 Permalink

They lose money on every sale, but will make it up on volume. snicker.  I still run into people who say that Musk is a genius - look at the new car. Never mind that it is only good for the top end fun once and then needs to be driven at normal speeds due to over-heating and loss of power.

In reply to by adr

Iconoclast421 Thu, 12/14/2017 - 11:17 Permalink

$3 LED bulbs. $200 HDTVs. $100 smartphones with 3GB of RAM and 64 GB of storage and 14nm SoCs. Omm nom nom. What do all of these things have in common? None of them have this greedy bastard Musk standing in the way sucking off government subsidies to prop up and overinflate the electric car market thus preventing real value from actually entering this market.

Utopia Planitia Iconoclast421 Thu, 12/14/2017 - 12:58 Permalink

It is amazing there are so many clueless who believe that good things at affordable prices can only come from the govt applying iron-fisted regulation and control. I'd like to see them choke when they decide the govt has to take over manufacturing of smartphones and operation of the cell phone networks. I seriously do not think they will get a clue until that happens.  Which will be too late.

In reply to by Iconoclast421

Ofay Cat Thu, 12/14/2017 - 12:18 Permalink

Tesla that's the exclusive car maker for successful real estate agents, movie actors, some government officials. The rest of us can drive fucking Chevys with heavily taxed fuel to pay for the losses at Tesla. Elon Musk is the Bernie Madoff of electric cars.

Clowns on Acid Thu, 12/14/2017 - 13:40 Permalink

An overleveraged capital structure because Elon screwed TSLA shareholders (but enriched himself and his brother...CEO of Solar City) by buying a bankrupted Solar City (and their $ billion debt) for $ 5 Billion of TSLA shares. Few anal_ysts speak of this borderline fraudulent manuever.Only the Inv Bank analysts at MS and a few smaller others pump this TSLA ponzi scheme, they are all CA born millenials that have rode the QE based / QQQ boom all the way up and now actually think that they are insightful and fortune tellers. This can only end very badly. Fidelity and other mutual funds are also feeling omnipotent that they change how the world drives because they have a constant flow of funds from IRAs that will not be placed in a bond fund. They all still think that Hillary should have won the election and that NPV and actual profits are things of the past. Its a new world and they are in control. 

Boing_Snap Thu, 12/14/2017 - 14:05 Permalink

Love all the ZH induced hysteria over a company that is a direct threat to Big Oil, be good slaves and keep the piston punching dinosaurs, make your master happy.Meanwhile when those Tesla trucks are kicking your ass off the line at a green light you'll curse them electric vehicles with some real foaming venom then huh?...time warp back 120 years, invest in buggy whip manufacturers and retire.....lol....not

snblitz Boing_Snap Thu, 12/14/2017 - 15:16 Permalink

Electric cars, on average, in the United States, burn more oil than gas cars on a per vehicle basis.

They burn a lot more than light duty diesel trucks and cars.


oil to electricity 33% -> High voltage line transmission 90% -> final house current transformer 50% -> short haul final line delivery 80% -> charge battery 88% -> discharge battery 88% -> electric motor 90% -> overall oil to forward motion efficiency 9%

oil to diesel 88% -> transportation 98% -> diesel engine 55% -> overall oil to forward motion efficiency 47%

Feel free to adjust the numbers but you will be unable to materially change the facts.

In reply to by Boing_Snap

Benjamin123 snblitz Thu, 12/14/2017 - 17:18 Permalink

Thats a pretty stupid calculation because very little oil is used to generate electricity. Generation with gas approaches 60% efficiency, with coal about 40% and with diesel, almost not used but the closest there is to oil to electricity, about 50%. Not 33%.And the efficiency of a diesel vehicle is never 55%, it approaches 50% on the giant 2 stroke marine diesels and on giant generators, never on puny cars.Also, 50% transformer loss? WTF?

In reply to by snblitz

Berspankme Boing_Snap Thu, 12/14/2017 - 17:36 Permalink

How about you just make an argument for Tesla instead of being a smug jackoff? I think the existing OEM's have a huge advanatage in production expertise and ability to spread their costs over large volumes. I see zero advantages for Tesla and think the company would have long ago been dead if not for .gov largesse. 

In reply to by Boing_Snap

any_mouse Thu, 12/14/2017 - 15:42 Permalink

Road use taxes are embedded in the pump price of vehicle fuel. (Truckers pay it differently, but pay it nonetheless)

Those taxes will need to be paid. For now TPTB are holding back. The lost revenue is not much at this point and they are pushing EV. The day will come when the beast gets hungry.

Each vehicle will come with a federally mandated meter. Drive on to a public roadway and the meter starts running. EZ Pass everywhere you go, every tenth of a mile. Click, click, click.

personal109 Thu, 12/14/2017 - 17:49 Permalink

I live in San Francisco, I see fewer and fewer people driving these car.  One thing I see with regard to the Model S is it's design has not changed since 2012, more than 5 years ago.  The coolness factor, which is so important to the narcissistic yuppies of the bay area is gone.  All car companies do minor design changes every year and major ones at mid cycle or 3 to 4 year.  To put it simply, if you put a Model S side by side a BMW M series, Mercedes AMGs, Audi S/RS, Porsche or Lexus F sport high end, Jaguars, Range Rovers as well, the Model S looks really dated.  I believe, the ICE vs battery, all that stuff you can't see has been hyped way too much.  The Coolness factor is a critical part to high end auto-enthusiasts. I see the same thing happening with the Model X, its just came out but even now, I can see SUVs by BMW, Lexus, Audi and Porsche to be a lot more sexier in my opinion.