Thiel: Bullish On Bitcoin, Trump, & Musk; Bearish On AI, EU & Political Correctness

Fresh off his move to Los Angeles, and a profile in the New York Times where he defended President Donald Trump and lashed out at the pervasive groupthink that drove him out of Silicon Valley, billionaire venture capitalist and PayPal co-founder Peter Thiel sat for an interview with Maria Bartiromo at the Economic Club of New York.

Early in the discussion, Bartiromo asked Thiel - who famously opened for Trump at the Republican National Convention - what he thought about Trump's performance.

In response, he explained that he's extremely happy with the president's performance during his first year in office. While the media has been hyperfixated on the latest leak from the Russia probe, Trump has quietly been slashing regulations and questioning orthodoxies like the economic benefits of free trade.

"That's why, if he runs again, he will be reelected," Thiel said.

Though "it's probably the case that Democrats will do quite well in the midterms."

He also pointed out the irony that people in the Bay Area describe him as a "contrarian" for supporting Trump...

"Supporting Trump was the least contrarian thing I ever did...nearly half the country voted for him. But within the context of Silicon Valley it was viewed as extremely contrarian."

"The one thing that I liked about Trump and still very much like about him is a willingness to ask questions and to reframe the debate and not be bound by these strictures.

"There are any of a number of issues where it's good to rethink things."

Later in the conversation, Bartiromo asked Thiel about the "Gawker situation." Thiel, who sounded uncharacteristically willing to discuss an episode about which he has been famously reticent, explained that Gawker's argument in its own defense was, in reality, an insult to journalism. Thiel said that just because Gawker billed itself as a news site doesn't automatically extend first amendment protections to everything it publishes.

"I'm very proud to have supported Hulk Hogan in a successful lawsuit... The claim that a pornographer pays someone for sex tapes, and a journalist gets to publish sex tapes without paying people... that's what in effect what Gawker was arguing."

"We have a first amendment, we believe in free speech, but that doesn't mean you get to steal a sex tape made in the privacy of a bedroom and post it on the Internet for everybody to see. We have a first amendment...but we also have a fourth amendment that protects us from unreasonable search and that's the legal framing."

The Gawker lawsuit demonstrated to America why defining the scope of privacy protections in the digital age is so important. Today, the conventional wisdom is that Americans have tacitly surrendered their right to privacy by participating in the digital world. But Thiel says this notion is anathema to the preservation of a free society.

There was a brief discussion of trade, in which Thiel briefly pointed out that US is in a much stronger position to bargain with China and EU than vice versa...

"Quite unclear where China can reciprocate with tariffs on US. We're exporting so little. US no longer is a monopoly exporter in any single area."

"With Germany, it's a very similar thing, hard to know how you retaliate in a way that hurts them more than it hurts US."

The Silicon Valley billionaire then added that Peter Navarro has sold 1 million copies of his book "Zero To One" in China vs. 40,000 in India, which Thiel says is one way to show how one country is thinking about entrepreneurship versus the other.

When Bartiromo raising the European Union's decision to introduce the "first ever" regulations of Google, Facebook and other giant tech platforms. Thiel sees good reasons and bad reasons for this threat of regulation:

The good reasons are these privacy concerns and the bad reasons are there are no successful tech companies in Europe and they are jealous of the US so they are punishing us."

Additionally, Thiel acknowledged that “privacy in a digital era deserves to be rethought” but said that "as a libertarian I always dislike regulation."

Intriguingly, amid all the hype and anxiety surrounding investment, Thiel explained why, as an investor, he wasn't particularly interested in artificial intelligence: because of its bad reputation.

“The thing that struck me is how uncharismatic AI is at the point. Basically, it’s going to take our jobs and, once it takes our jobs, at the singularity [the theoretical point at which superhuman artificial intelligence is created, triggering an unprecedented cascade of technological change] it’s just going to kill everybody."

"I’m not sure that dystopian view is necessarily correct but that’s actually what most people believe,” he said, adding that when considering investments he tends to ask whether technologies are good and how they are going to make the world better...

“The answers for things like AI are quite weak,” he said.

Bartiromo then steered the conversation toward bitcoin, and mentioned that, the last time she had spoken to Thiel, that he had expressed reservations about a lot of cryptocurrencies, but was optimistic about the long-term prospects of bitcoin. Thiel explained that he's owned bitcoin for a long time, and has been consistently bullish.

Though he doubts it'll ever be successful as a medium for payments, Thiel believes bitcoin could endure as a store of value that, much like gold, could serve as a hedge against inflation.

"The technology that people like to talk about is the blockchain technology, and I'm somewhat skeptical about how that translates into good investments, but the one use-case of cryptocurrency as a store of value may actually have quite a bit of a ways to go. I would be long bitcoin and neutral to skeptical of just about everything else at this point, with a few possible exceptions.

"The question with something like bitcoin is whether it can become a store of value. And the thing it would replace is something like gold. The analogy is it's like bars of gold in a vault that never move and you get it and it's a hedge of sorts against the whole world falling apart."

"The objections that people have to bitcoin are also objections to gold. It's this weird currency that's not backed by any government. Same thing is true of gold. It's not clear what the intrinsic value of bitcoin is. Same thing is true of gold. It may well be a bubble, but - and most bubbles are unstable and end - one of my friends has this line that 'money is the bubble that never pops', so if it is a bubble, then it is money."

"If everybody decided that a $100 bill was worthless then you wouldn't want to have a $100 bill."

There are a lot of crazy dynamics in the crypto world, but one thing that's different from the dot-com bubble of the late 90s is there aren't any Wall Street bankers involved... yet - one reason why bitcoin strikes Thiel as "deeply contrarian."

At the very least, both Wall Street and Silicon Valley were both late to the bitcoin party. While this isn't a reason to be bullish in and of itself, it's definitely a factor worth considering. And while there are risks surrounding the influence that miners exert, as well as the unraveling of privacy protections. But, Thiel says, there will likely be only one online equivalent to gold...and right now, bitcoin is the only crypto product that fits that bill.

Thiel offers some parting advice: "Never bet against Elon." and "don't compete with Amazon."

When Thiel first invested in Musk’s rocket company, SpaceX, he was sceptical that it would be able to build a reusable rocket.

“I have known Elon for 18 years and you should never bet against Elon,” he said.

“I thought it was inconceivable that it could be done … and they have actually pulled it off,” he said.

The company to watch, he said, was Amazon, which has expanded into a broad range of industries, from infrastructure and logistics to retail and healthcare.

“Amazon is the most ferocious company in the US at this point. It’s probably the company you don’t want to be competing against,” he said.

“I can’t think of any other company even close to Amazon.”

Finally, Thiel circled back to Silicon Valley and the politically-correct folly of it all...

“It’s striking how what had always been a very liberal place has become almost a one-party state,” he said.

“When you have complete unanimity that tells you that political correctness may have gone a little bit too far.”


fx Shillinlikeavillan Thu, 03/15/2018 - 18:34 Permalink

Thiel is smart, no doubt. But note that he is actually pretty unsure about the value proposition of bitcoin and even more of the other cryptos. In fact the trend of the pat 6 weeks has been that everything non-bitcoin has lost dramatically versus BTC.

As for "don't bet against Musk" - he means that in the sense that Musk will get lots of things done that most people would deem impossible. However, crooked Elon has never gotten anything done wihtout burning a ton of other people's money. Remember, Thiel FIRED Musk as CEO of paypal! So it is not meant in the sense that crooked Elon will ever succeed from a commercial point of view.

I regard short Tesla as the most surest winning short trade there is out there.

In reply to by Shillinlikeavillan

Endgame Napoleon fx Thu, 03/15/2018 - 19:03 Permalink

I have no idea, but I think he might be referring to the way Musk thinks big. He knows him, so he might be basing his evaluation on the factor of a determination to succeed—on grit, not on accounting ability. I say this because of Thiel's speech at the Republican Convention, where he talked about how the tech world needs to tackle big things again, like innovation on the level of the space program.

Musk can hire people to do CEO tasks that he does not excel at, but you cannot buy something like grand-scale determination.…

In reply to by fx

Is-Be fx Thu, 03/15/2018 - 19:50 Permalink

However, crooked Elon has never gotten anything done wihtout burning a ton of other people's money. 

That's a crutch that is used by underachievers all the time.

Surely you cannot expect him to go to Mars with his earnings as a shoeshine boy?

In reply to by fx

bshirley1968 Is-Be Thu, 03/15/2018 - 21:16 Permalink

“I have known Elon for 18 years and you should never bet against Elon,”......

Right. Because he comes up with meaningless, shameless ventures that are loved by the Matrix and subsidized by the government for the sake of the Construct. As long as the Matrix is intact, the Elons of the world never lose.

I don't expect him or anyone else to go to matter how much of whose money is burned.

In reply to by Is-Be

loveyajimbo fx Thu, 03/15/2018 - 19:54 Permalink

Shorting the dollar, IMHO... is better... just a matter of time until it collapses.

If China, with or without Russia... announces a gold-backed currency... it is OVER for the Buck.

No matter what that imbecile crook Kudlow says.

A percentage in Bitcoin is wise too... if the internet goes down for any length of time, it is guns, gold, silver, food, ammo and booze, anyway...

In reply to by fx

Endgame Napoleon Shillinlikeavillan Thu, 03/15/2018 - 18:57 Permalink

I see your point, but who are you selling your gold to in that case? 

Won’t every gold bug and his dog be trying to unload his gold on the local jeweler, reducing its value with an oversupply? 

When the fuel pumps run dry, how are you going to get to the jeweler?

Are you going to walk there, with your bags of gold in hand, begging to be robbed? 

I guess that is where the weaponry comes in.

At that point, I’ll just throw in the towel. I am not wading through the violent herd, which is likely to make a $10-per-hour call center full of cutthroat mommas look like a day in the park. 

In reply to by Shillinlikeavillan

Endgame Napoleon ThinkerNotEmoter Thu, 03/15/2018 - 18:48 Permalink

His betting record is spotless. He should be the professional role model for traders. He is one of those clear-eyed people who sees the forrest, rather than being distracted by the trees. 

As a libertarian, I do not see why Thiel thinks the Swampers’ Keynesian tax-welfare plan is good, but maybe, he thinks the looser regulatory climate for business was the important thing. Tax revenues and new-business creation are down in the USA. He might regard over-regulation as the biggest problem.  

He was right about Gawker and the Fourth Amendment. Gossip is the not news, and when fourth-amendment-violating surveillance is used to profit from gossip, disguised as news, the “newspeople” hide behind the protection of the First Amendment as a way to remove the protection of the Fourth Amendment. It does not matter if it was a celebrity. Next thing you know, they will do that to average citizens.

In reply to by ThinkerNotEmoter

Yellow_Snow BullyBearish Thu, 03/15/2018 - 19:22 Permalink


The annual report of JPMorgan read:

“financial institutions... face the risk that payment processing and other services could be disrupted by technologies, such as cryptocurrencies, that require no intermediation.”

In reply to by BullyBearish

lookslikecraptome loveyajimbo Fri, 03/16/2018 - 00:09 Permalink

“financial institutions... face the risk that payment processing and other services could be disrupted by technologies, such as cryptocurrencies, that require no intermediation.”


from yellow snow

Jeez Snow do u have any idea how old this quote is.

Yellow Snow is a progenitor of STI  (Suck them in) or even FUD (Fuck U Dumbass).  

The banks could give fuck all about BTC, until they want to own it, any time they want. The P2P part of BTC is all bull shit. 

U got it dude, they and other banks own BTC bigly. 

In reply to by loveyajimbo

snblitz WorkingClassMan Thu, 03/15/2018 - 23:52 Permalink

Crypto's could be put to death by the governments of the world any time they wanted.

Instead of raiding people with high electrical consumption for growing marijuana they will be raiding them for mining bitcoin.

And who is going to mine bitcoin when all the bitcoins are mined?  We are at 17 million already mined out of a total of 21 million.

Or when the "reward" gets halved every 4 years?

The bitcoin block chain will carry on with transaction fees?

Let see, 224 characters per average transaction, 1 million characters per block, or 4500 transactions per block.

Currently bitcoin miners get 12.5 bitcoin per block mined or US$100,000.

So to mine with only transaction fees miners would expect $100,000 / 4500 or $22 per transaction.  Not exactly cheap, and when it was $24 per transaction in December 2016 people's heads were exploding.


In reply to by WorkingClassMan

8peyote Thu, 03/15/2018 - 18:31 Permalink

I'm selling my Atari 2600 and taking a chance with something called Sega I think it's going to be huge. There are also these guys with something called Nintendo, looks promising as well

Is-Be Thu, 03/15/2018 - 19:19 Permalink

AI is not "charismatic"?

I've never heard that argument before.

Perhaps he has not met Sophia.

AI did thrash the best hominid we've got at Go. Admittedly with no charisma at all.

Government is a blunt instrument without any resolution. This is where AI comes in.

It will micromanage the economy (an us) in real time, cutting out waste, improving, efficiency, and making us all wealthier.

No hominid would dare interfere with AI once it gets into it's stride. He would be lynched by the mob.


navy62802 Thu, 03/15/2018 - 19:36 Permalink

Political Correctness is a dead ender's game. Followed to its ultimate conclusion, PC dictates that none of us will be permitted to utter a word, lest we offend someone.

Is-Be Yen Cross Thu, 03/15/2018 - 20:06 Permalink

This is exactly why rates need to rise, and markets need to mean revert.

And I'm betting that the FED has a very sophisticated algo.

That is precisely why our poor hominid brains cannot understand why the show just keeps trundling along.

But sooth your ego with the thought that the mouthpieces at the FED have no idea what it's doing either.

They're just faking it. It beats shining shoes.

In reply to by Yen Cross

DelusionsCrowded Fri, 03/16/2018 - 20:31 Permalink

Peter , what about putting some coin towards "Trump The Musical" , some art for the Right . Think in terms of Gilbert & Sullivans 

We have enough drama for Part 1 . I envisage act 5 : The Stormy Daniels absurdity . This could make money and be very funny .