Syrian War For Dummies - Three Versions

As the Ghouta campaign continues to unfold, we should expect that both politicians and mainstream media will give us - in the words of philosopher and theologian Reinhold Niebuhr"necessary illusion and emotionally potent oversimplifications" intended to shape our perceptions of events.

It goes without saying that such "emotionally potent oversimplifications" on Syria have formed the dominant paradigm through which the American public has received its information over the past seven years of war. From the State Department officials to think tank "experts" to the Graham/McCain axis to CNN panelists to the neocon twitterati and all the usual interventionistas who cast everything in terms of Manichean good vs. evil, darkness vs. light, bloodthirsty tyrants vs. noble populace - we've had to endure and fight seven years of a constant stream of propaganda on Syria.

Image source: Thierry Ehrmann via Flickr

This worldview is what BBC filmmaker Adam Curtis accurately characterized as a 'goodies and baddies' dualistic vision of global events which keeps the Western public under the illusion that its own political leaders are perpetually driven by concern over human rights, defending the weak and oppressed, and spreading democracy over and against the unenlightened megalomaniac dictators of the world who are simply bent on brutalizing their own people.

The BBC's Curtis concluded of the "humanitarian" wars that followed in the wake of the so-called 'Arab Spring' (especially Libya and Syria) :

The question at the heart of this whole story is - Who was the ventriloquist? And who was the dummy? Maybe we were the dummy? By allowing perception management with its simplifications, falsehoods and exaggerations to create a simplified vision of the world - we fell into a fake universe of certainty when really we were just watching a pantomime. 

And now as the Arab Spring unfolds and reveals the true chaos and messiness of the real world - above all the horror of what is happening in Syria - we find ourselves completely unable to understand it or even know what to do. So those stories get ignored while we follow others with clearer and more simplified dramas which have what seem to be obvious goodies and baddies - thank god for Iran, North Korea and Jimmy Savile.

Although the Syrian war is almost over, many Americans still don't understand what transpired over the last seven years, because the mainstream narrative has been an embarrassing mix of propaganda, half-truths and lies.

Below are three versions of the conflict as presented by Chris Kanthan via Sott.net.  

Disney Version

Once upon a time, a country called Syria was ruled by a ruthless dictator named Bashar Al-Assad. He was a cruel man who gassed his own people. His actions caused a civil war in Syria. America and Europe tried their best to stop the devastating civil war, and even generously accepted many Syrian refugees. Eventually America went to Syria, defeated ISIS, and is now trying to restore stability.

This above version is quite popular among many Americans and Europeans and the Western mainstream media.

* * *

High School Version

Oppressed by Assad's brutal regime, the Syrian people longed for freedom and democracy. One day, people started protesting in a small city. In response, Assad killed many peaceful protesters. However, this backfired and the entire country was engulfed in protests. Soon a civil war broke out, which led to millions of refugees fleeing Syria.

America was appalled and, for humanitarian reasons, decided to help the Syrians who were fighting Assad. When Assad gassed his own people, America intervened and removed all his chemical weapons. Unfortunately, Assad managed to gas innocent civilians again after a few years. Then, America went to Syria, defeated ISIS, and is now trying to restore stability.

The above version is presented in most of the global mainstream media.

* * *

College Version

Simply put, the Syrian "civil war" is an illegal, proxy war waged against Syria. In defiance of international laws, many countries have been sending weapons and terrorist mercenaries into Syria for the last seven years (to gain a deeper understanding of who wants to topple Assad and why, please read: Chaos in Syria: Part 1 - Three Motives and Seven Countries).

2011

In early 2011, US/UK special forces used Jordan's military base to assist protests against Assad in a border town called Daraa. With the Muslim Brotherhood's organizational skills and Saudi Arabia's deep pockets, violent protests spread thru Syria. Soon, an organized and armed militia known as Free Syrian Army (FSA) was created by the outsiders.

After the fall of Gaddafi in late 2011, the US State Department and US intelligence agencies organized the shipment of tons of deadly weapons such as Stinger missiles and Sarin gas from destroyed Libya to Syria, via Turkey. Even with all this help, the American proxy force known as the FSA couldn't win the war. At this point, NATO and Neocons wanted to bomb Syria, but Russia and China vetoed the motion in the UN, so the imperial war by deception moved on to the next phase.

2012

In early 2012, someone dialed Al Qaeda (referred to as AQ or AQI in government documents). Zawahiri, AQ's top leader, called for help and experienced Islamic terrorists from all over the world rushed into Syria by way of Saudi Arabia's international jihadist recruitment agency. Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, received an email from her chief adviser, saying that "Al Qaeda is on our side" .

Al Qaeda rebranded itself as Al Nusra, and fearsome weapons such as grenade launchers, mortars, tanks and anti-tank missiles started pouring into Syria via Turkey and Jordan.

The CIA spent $100,000 to train each rebel. Billions of US taxpayers dollars were wasted once again on supporting the same terrorist groups that attacked the USA on 9/11 .

Watching the western media, the average person had no idea that we were supporting Al Qaeda or how heavily armed these "rebels" were.

Western media and politicians also stuck to their talking points and referred to all these fighters as "moderate rebels." However, many of them are ruthless Islamists who use suicide bombers, behead even children, and commit unspeakable atrocities. They are also religious fanatics who seek out and kill Christians and Shiites. This is described in detail in the book, Deconstructing the Syrian War.

A Pentagon memo warned against this reckless policy and precisely predicted the rise of groups such as ISIS. Obviously the memo was ignored (or even happily accepted) by the White House and other officials.

2012 was also the year when the refugee crisis became a serious international problem. By the end of the year, almost 200,000 people had fled Syria. In the coming years, it would swell to five million.

2013

When FSA and AQ failed to oust Assad, the "powers that be" started recruiting Sunni extremists in Iraq. In April 2013, ISIS was officially established out of the AQI insurgency. In the next year, these barbaric mercenaries would capture much of eastern Syria.

This was also the year when Obama's red-line was crossed - the use of chemical weapons by Assad. UN experts who went to the site soon found that it was actually the rebels who had likely used the chemical weapons. The report was quickly drowned by the western propaganda machine.

2014-2016

The next two years were just repetitions of the daily brutality of war, with ISIS making huge gains in the east. Whenever the rebels started to lose, either more weapons would flow in, or Israel would fly into Syria and bomb the Syrian army.

In late 2015, the Syrian government sought Russia's help. Within a month, the Russian air force weakened ISIS by destroying most of the oil tankers that ISIS was using to transport oil to Turkey. By the end of 2016, the Syrian government had the upper hand - Aleppo was liberated from Al Qaeda, and ISIS was running out of cash and morale.

2017

2017 was turning out to be a great year for Assad. By March, ISIS had lost over three hundred towns to the Syrian army. Al Qaeda was facing a similar demise, losing one big city after another.

Furthermore, Trump had stopped arming the rebels in February. In late March, Trump and Tillerson dropped the slogan "Assad must go".

Finally, Assad was getting ready for an EU-UN peace conference on April 4-5.

This was the moment (when events had turned in favor of the Syrian government) that the alleged chemical attack occurred in an area controlled by the rebels in Idlib province. Plus it happened on the very day that the peace conference began.

Without any investigation, within an hour after the pictures and videos came out, Western warmongers declared that Assad was responsible. No independent doctors or experts were sent to the site. Anyone who took the time to critically analyze the situation could see that the chemical attack was likely either a hoax or a false flag attack.

2018

After Russia had effectively defeated ISIS, the US didn't just leave Syria, since the real goal is to Balkanize Syria and prepare for a war against Iran. Thus the West is now trying to use Kurds as a proxy tool in this effort. It's likely that the US will have military bases in Syria for a long time. As long as the US government can keep borrowing money, such wild adventures will continue.

In their quest for hegemonic geopolitical goals, the elites are sowing more chaos around the world and irreparably damaging the western moral compass. The global mafia's rule seems to be this: if you play by our rules, we will be nice to you. If you don't...

Those are the three versions of the Syrian civil war. Which one will Americans choose to believe?

* * *

P.S. Here are some links to read if you would like to gain a Ph.D. version of the Syrian conflict:

  • a. 1956: CIA plot to overthrow the Syrian government
  • b. 1983: CIA document on plans to obliterate Syria to enable an oil pipeline
  • c. 1986: CIA document on how to use Muslim Brotherhood to fuel a sectarian (Sunni v. Shiite) civil war in Syria
  • d. 2001: Wesley Clark told that USA will take out 7 countries in 5 years (Libya, Syria etc.)
  • e. 2005: CNN Interview. Christiane Amanpour tells Assad that the western governments are plotting a regime change in Syria
  • f. 2006: State Dept cable: Detailed discussion of various strategies to enable regime change in Syria
  • g. 2009: State Dept Email: Saudi Arabia is worried that a Shiite crescent is turning into a full moon (referring to a possible Iran-Iraq-Syria-Lebanon coalition)
  • h. 2009: State Dept Cable: Saudi Arabia is the #1 source of funding of terrorism worldwide
  • i. 2012 State Dept Email: Conquest of Syria means a weakened Iran and this is important for Israel
  • j. 2012: State Dept Email: Use Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey to arm/train rebels
  • k. 2014: Hillary Clinton admits in an email that Saudi Arabia and Qatar fund ISIS
  • l. 2015: Joe Biden says Saudi Arabia and Qatar arming/funding Al Qaeda in Syria
  • m. 2016: John Kerry in a leaked audio recording explains how the US trained/armed the opposition and was hoping to use ISIS to force Assad into negotiation
  • n. Israel's Mossad chief admits helping Al Qaeda and says that it's because Al Qaeda never attacks Israel

Comments

Sedaeng lloll Fri, 03/16/2018 - 22:40 Permalink

I despise your existence. You sully ZH with your BS. Painfully persistent in your attempts to siphon traffic this site attracts. Just. Die. Already.

 

Edit: I most certainly will name the joo.(to those commenting otherwise). (((They))) are THE problem of the world. This dude above adds nothing to the conversations, period.

In reply to by lloll

Shillinlikeavillan Schlomo Shekelstein Fri, 03/16/2018 - 22:48 Permalink

I've been studying this war along with the so called "muslim spring" ever since it started back in 2010...

 

... it boggles my mind how certain individuals are still running around free right at this very moment(obama and hillary come to mind)...

 

Our government and justice system is broken, and people don't care as long as it doesn't affect them(power is still on, water and food still flows, facebook still works, etc etc...)

 

We as a society are fucked, and will pay for it eventually...

In reply to by Schlomo Shekelstein

solidtare Manthong Fri, 03/16/2018 - 22:57 Permalink

Another "slam dunk", consider:

Surrounded by enemies - Turkey, Israel, Jordan

Financed by KSA and Qatar

Weapons from Libya

What could go wrong ?

Well for arm chair leaders with no skin in the game, anything and everything.

But no matter, no skin, no risk, no consequences.

We shall, see.

In reply to by Manthong

JSBach1 solidtare Fri, 03/16/2018 - 23:04 Permalink

Elijah Maginer had an interesting take in his article today:

“The US’s anger at the Syrian-Russian attack on al-Ghouta needs to be made clearer here: the US occupation of al-Tanf Syrian-Iraqi borders aimed to create a launching platform for its military operations towards Deir al-Zour in the north and al-Ghouta in the east. The US plan was to occupy the city of Deir al-Zour and al-Qaim north-east and the capital Damascus. But Iran went around the area where the US forces were positioned, isolating these in the al-Tanf pocket, and made a qualitative leap to liberate Deir al-Zour and al-Qaim by defeating ISIS forces, who withdrew towards the US area of influence east of the Euphrates.

Moreover, Al-Ghouta is a clear demonstration of the US’s failed plan to attack Damascus. The strategic military planning and link between al-Tanf and al-Ghouta was possible had the Syrian Army and Russia not intervened on time to surround it and attack jihadists to force these to surrenderer and pull out to Idlib. The US thought to create a real menace against Damascus and at least prevent the parliamentary and presidential elections due next year. By controlling Ghouta, jihadists were supposed to keep up the pace of bombing to render the Syrian capital “unsafe”.

The US and the International community tried to stop the battles of al-Ghouta to no avail. This prompted Washington to exercise its favourite hobby of imposing sanctions on Russia, without succeeding in stopping the Syrian army (fighting without its allies – except Russia) from recovering its control over Ghouta. The answer came immediately from Moscow by bombing Daraa and hitting al-Qaeda’s area of influence in an indication as to where the future theatre of military operations is expected to be.

Again, events are moving very fast: the US response came quickly through its UK ally when Britain took advantage of the poisoning of the former Russian spy Sergey Skripal in London to accuse Moscow of being behind his assassination. The message here is clear: all means are legitimate for the control of the Middle East, specifically Syria.

Israel followed by demanding the return of the UNDOF troops, withdrawn in August 2014 following the abduction of 47 UN peacekeepers by al-Qaeda (the ransom for their liberation was paid by Qatar). The Israeli demand coincided – I have learned from well informed sources – with the gathering of forces of Syria’s allies, including Hezbollah, in Daraa, in preparation for future wide scale military operations. The US considers that the battle of Daraa is directly against itself and its Israeli ally, especially as it is party, along with Russia and Jordan, to the agreement to reduce the escalation there, to serve Israel and secure its security in southern Syria.”

https://ejmagnier.com/2018/03/16/the-regional-international-demarcation…

MoonOfAlabama is also a worthwhile read on this latest article (Great job Bernhard!):

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/03/governments-decree-truth-about-skr…

In reply to by solidtare

solidtare JSBach1 Fri, 03/16/2018 - 23:22 Permalink

All good.

As in 2003, the smartest guys in the room gambled, and lost.

Their position is weaker still.

They are running out of time.

"Why risk what you have for something you don't need" - Buffet.

They are nervous and their opponents are now experienced and hardened. And calm and patient.

They gambled and lost, yet again.

In reply to by JSBach1

solidtare purplewarrior Sat, 03/17/2018 - 00:04 Permalink

If Assad made any big mistakes, his position would weaken, fast.

He does not have the western luxury of playing games and making mistakes.

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201803171062619230-syria-assad-war-m…

"I don't worship the authorities, I advocate reforms. But if [Assad] resigns now, he will be a traitor. He has no right to resign. He will betray those supporting him, he will betray the memory of the victims. And if he goes, who would replace him?" she mulls.

In reply to by purplewarrior

BobEore solidtare Sat, 03/17/2018 - 00:28 Permalink

Ahh yes.... "Sputnik News"... that tiny island of truth in a sea of lies.

The guy who's book is behind this particular delivery of disinfo... Chris Kanthan...

gives the whole game away in a couple of paragraphs here

Psychologically, it’s difficult for people to believe that every media outlet would lie. Don’t we live in a country with free media and amazing journalists and pundits?

With the exception of Russia’s RT, every influential newspaper and TV channel in the world has repeated the same propaganda, talking points, and the narratives with impeccable coordination.

No sovereign nation  states... no more. No independent medias. ONEMEDIA. ONE OWNER. ONE CHABAD TO RULE THEM ALL.

Better get it thru your head dread.

In reply to by solidtare

solidtare hestroy Sat, 03/17/2018 - 09:42 Permalink

HUGE HOLE IN THIS ARTICLE:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/10/the-syria-dea…

Last year [2012], the UN envoy had carved a path for a government "transition." But the White House and Hillary Clinton rejected it.

...

All of which should prompt a reexamination of the first Geneva conference in the summer of 2012, on which Kerry’s new push for peace is based. According to some officials involved, perhaps the greatest tragedy of Syria is that, some 80,000 lives ago, President Obama might have had within his grasp a workable plan to end the violence, one that is far less possible now. But amid the politics of the 2012 presidential election—when GOP nominee Mitt Romney regularly accused Obama of being “soft”—the administration did little to make it work and simply took a hard line against Assad, angering the special U.N. Syria envoy, Kofi Annan, and prompting the former U.N. secretary-general to quit, according to several officials involved.

...

Annan resigned a month later. At the time, the soft-spoken Ghanaian diplomat was cagey about his reasons, appearing to blame all sides. “I did not receive all the support that the cause deserved,” Annan told reporters in Geneva. He also criticized what he called “finger-pointing and name-calling in the Security Council.” But former senior aides and U.N. officials say in private that Annan blamed the Obama administration in large part. “The U.S. couldn’t even stand by an agreement that the secretary of State had signed in Geneva,” said one former close Annan aide who would discuss the talks only on condition of anonymity. “He quit in frustration. I think it was clear that the White House was very worried about seeming to do a deal with the Russians and being soft on Putin during the campaign.” One of the biggest Republican criticisms of Obama at the time was that he had, in an embarrassing “open mike” moment, promised Moscow more “flexibility” on missile defense after the election.

...

Basically 300,000 deaths because this is a game,

"Assad Has Lost All Legitimacy !"

"Assad Must Go !"

“I think they sit there across the pond in the U.S., sometimes it seems … they feel like they’re in a lab and they’re running all sorts of experiments on the rats without understanding consequences of what they’re doing,” Putin told a group of reporters. “Why would they do that? Nobody can explain it.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

2011     7,841 killed
2012    49,294 killed
2013    73,447 killed
2014    76,021 killed
2015    55,219 killed
2016    49,742 killed
2017    33,425 killed
Total   344,989 killed

In reply to by hestroy

FBaggins hestroy Sat, 03/17/2018 - 11:27 Permalink

Grow up hestroy.  It is the Disney and High School people in the categories of the above article who are so clearly brainwashed by the bankster, neocon, Zio controlled MSM, entertainment industry and Fcked up educational system. You can show them all the historical facts and they remain totally unreceptive running back to ABC, CNN for support for their political correct nonsense.  

In reply to by hestroy

BobEore Scar Bro Sat, 03/17/2018 - 05:56 Permalink

Ah yes. Elijah.

Back in February... right around the time that the dissimulationist medias were desperately trying to either

catch up to;

deny the reality of...

my expose of the the disaster of WANGNERIAN proportions which had enveloped the Russo-Syrian storyline in a cloud of ACME SURPLUS STYLE acrid gunpowder mustachios...

our "middle eastern correspondent" E M weighed in with the astonishing(but ever so desirable)notice that (he he heh...)

" Israel did not understand that it could no longer achieve its goals in Syria, that the variety of options had shrunk, and that the policy of intimidation – which Israel cannot abandon – far from helping, only strengthens its enemies, Assad, Hezbollah and Iran."

which was lapped up straight of course... by those numerous naifs who prefer to be coddled in their conceits of exceptionally exceptional knowingness,

but failed to in any way accurately surmise or predict our Syrian Endgame. Now...

a month or so later... the Russkies syrian schemes in tatters - and reputations as 'peaceniks' battered... by a string of nasty bombing campaigns against refusniks who were silly enough to decline to leave their homes...

an Iranian ally increasingly suspicious of their care-bears real motives and alliances... and the Turks chewing up more and more syrian 'sovereign' territory via moscows say so...

turns out more sober observers had the general trend of things more clairvoyantly under control... and Srael has once again manipulated all players against each other - in a masterful demonstration of its hidden power... and some writers' means of portraying that power correctly. 

Hard to explain it all to the drumbplings. Could have something to do with the difference tween calling yourself a 'middle eastern correspondent' whilst shuttling tween digs in the London/Brussels/Frankfort triangle ...

and simply being in the 'muddled east'... as someone with real skin in the game. Who knows?

 

 

In reply to by Scar Bro

11b40 BobEore Sat, 03/17/2018 - 10:57 Permalink

I well recall my old man telling an insurance salesman "if you can explain it, I can understand it.  If you can't explain it, you don't understand it."

When I read your disjointed ramblings, I am reminded of what he told that salesman, and somehow get the feeling you don't know what you are talking about.

In reply to by BobEore

Scar Bro BobEore Sat, 03/17/2018 - 12:02 Permalink

Woah woah woah Bob. I thought the Russians and the Iranians and the Israelis AND the Americans AND the Turks AND the Chinese are ALL being run by the Chabad foreskin chewers... (well all jews love a good chew on a foreskin, not just the chabad ones... whatever in the fuck that means anyway) 

But, hey, if they're all being controlled by jews, as you say... then why are you talking about distrust between the IRanians and the Russians. In fact what the fuck is going on in Syria if all parties are being controlled by jews? Are they just doing all this to confuse little old me?...... sitting in my mom's basement? If so, can you tell your jew handlers (well, EVERYONE's jew handlers it would seem) to knock this shit off, my opinion of global affairs is of zero consequence to the global jews who control EVERY country on earth (well... according to you.... and as you say you have "skin" in the game.... it's not your foreskin in your rabbis mouth is it?)

In reply to by BobEore

Conscious Reviver JSBach1 Sat, 03/17/2018 - 06:09 Permalink

Terrific Elijah Maginer material. Fills in some blanks. The thing about nuclear weapons, Israel's for example, once Charlie is inside the wire, mixed with your friendlies they're not much good.

Amazing to me how Iran was all pent up behind Sadam and Israeli Zionists decided Sadam must go.

Now Iran could hit them with a rock. Did the Israeli geniuses sign their own death warrent? Will Sadam have the last laugh after all? Worse than the loss of their settler state, no one will believe they're geniuses anymore. Then what? They'll all have to get real jobs. Mishuginna Sorry I don't really know any Yiddish.

In reply to by JSBach1

NumbersUsa solidtare Fri, 03/16/2018 - 23:48 Permalink

There is only one solution, get all the jew supremacists and dual citizen israelis out of all Federal, State & Local Governments-Now !

Remove all jew supremacists from all teaching and education administration positions-Now !

Remove all jew supremacists from all Media of every sort-Now !

Remove all jew supremacists from all banking institutions of all types- Now!

Shutdown forever all jew supremacist foreign agent organizations in the U.S.A. such as Aipac, Zoa, Adl, Aclu, Splc, Jwc, Jdl, and a thousand more.

That's the only way the Country's woes will be corrected. 

In reply to by solidtare

Voluntary Exchange NumbersUsa Sat, 03/17/2018 - 03:26 Permalink

The human race is not served by any form of tribalism. Any group trying to impose its will on any other is just another form of tribalism. We all are equal with regard to the laws of nature and that which formed nature.

So lets get all groups out of all governments, and stop basing our civilization on the initiation of force. The thuggery of legalized theft will attract the worst elements of every tribe. Always has, always will. No person has authority to rule any other. We are all children of the same creative origin.

Every person is their own state, we can make agreements and treaties among individuals but no one gets to enslave anyone else or pretend to be God by making "laws" to justify initiation of force against anyone. Voluntary Exchange or bust!

In reply to by NumbersUsa

Chupacabra-322 Voluntary Exchange Sat, 03/17/2018 - 10:01 Permalink

@ Voluntary,  tell that to the Pure Evil War Criminal Treasonous Seditious Psychopaths at the CIA.

 

So just to clarify - yes, the CIA chief admitted that Democracy-spreading 'Murica meddled in the Democratic elections of other nations "in the interests of democracy."

 

In case you wondered which ones he was referring to, here's a brief selection since 1948...

 

2016: UK (verbal intervention against Brexit)

2014: Afghanistan (effectively re-writing Afghan constitution)

2014: UK (verbal intervention against Scottish independence)

2011: Libya (providing support to overthrow Colonel Gaddafi)

2009: Honduras (ousting President Zelaya)

2006: Palestine (providing support to oust Prime Minister Haniyeh)

2005: Syria (providing support against President al-Assad)

2003: Iran (providing support against President Khatami)-

2003: Iraq (ousting of President Hussein)

2002: Venezuela (providing support to attempt an overthrow of President Chavez)

1999: Yugoslavia (removing Yugoslav forces from Kosovo)

1994: Iraq (attempted overthrow of President Hussein)

1991: Haiti (ousting President Aristide)

1991: Kuwait (removing Iraqi forces from Kuwait)

1989: Panama (ousting General Noriega)

1983: Grenada (ousting General Austin's Marxist forces)

1982: Nicaragua (providing support

1971: Chile (ousting President Allende)

1967: Indonesia (ousting President Sukarno)

1964: Brazil (ousting President Goulart)

1964: Chile (providing support against Salvador Allende)

1961: Congo (assassination of leader Lumumba)

1958: Lebanon (providing support to Christian political parties)

1954: Guatemala (ousting President Arbenz)

1953: Iran (ousting Prime Minister Mossadegh)

1953: Philippines (providing support to the President Magsaysay campaign)

1948: Italy (providing support to the Christian Democrats campaign)

In reply to by Voluntary Exchange

FBaggins 11b40 Sat, 03/17/2018 - 11:44 Permalink

Yes, when we go to war again, I trust you will be on the other side and we will look you up. Your view is as pessimistic as the views of Stephen Hawking who opined, totally out of his field of expertise, as was his habit, that we are genetically wired for aggression and greed, and that would be our destruction. If you are a creationist then you tend to believe in the fall and that we are subject to our own aggression and greed, but the theist trusts in the return of the prodigal son and redemption. Whereas if you are an evolutionist then you tend to believe that we have risen from the slime to our present stature where despite our primordial instincts for survival, pleasure, dominance and wealth, and all the wars which go with it, we are still here and in the process, we are still learning to harness such instincts. It is the social Darwinists, the neocons, the exclusive tribalists, those who say it is a “dog eat dog” world to justify their own aggression, greed and exploitation of others who are the real enemy of humanity – and it this case it is everyone who has supported the destabilization and aggression against Syria.  

In reply to by 11b40

11b40 FBaggins Sat, 03/17/2018 - 21:52 Permalink

First, who is the "we" who will be looking me up, and what will "we" do with me when "we" find me?  I am concerned, because "we" seem to be very BOLD!

There is a fine line between idealism and stupidity.  Ignoring reality is dumb, and dangerous.  Hawking had plenty of time to sit and contemplate the true nature of man.  How do you know about his expertise....or mine, for that matter? 

Whatever, I have no idea how your life experiences have tempered you, certainly have no interest in a philosophical debate about creation.  How do you make a living?  Do you have P& L responsibility?  Ownership?  Do you have to sign the payroll checks?  If so, you have a better understanding of the way Alphas compete.

How many 3rd world countries have you visited?  How many countries have you lived in?  Ever spent time in a war zone?  Ever been prey?

The point is, what do you know of the nature of man?  Does it come from experience, from books, from feelings?

You can wish for some kind of transformational change in mankind, but we are plunging headlong in the opposite direction.

 

And by the way, I have been against the Syrian adventure from the beginning, and the one in Libya before that, and the one in Iraq, and the other one in Iraq, all before they got hot.  Calm down.  Breathe deep.

 

In reply to by FBaggins

CRC Failed NumbersUsa Sun, 03/18/2018 - 18:56 Permalink

NumbersUsa,

Really, no really, I like what you have to say. But it is too late.

I remember reading Tom Sawyer's Huck Finn and Russel Osborne's Journal of a Trapper. And a whole lot of stuff. And great movies, too. Like the Spaghetti Western's.

I am not saying that you do not have knowledge of these things, but surely, the acorn falleth not far the tree win I cast my eye upon thy words. Savvy?

The problem with all that American, that nostalgia, however, is this: it isn't that it is all (agreeable) fantasy, it is, actually, that we falsely view a removed age that we, Americans, consider unbroken time, a complete link from then to now.

It is as fantasy. A romantic fantasy. Like some bunch of Romans in the era of the Pax Romana eating grapes dressed in togas portrayed on some tapestry somewhere that we look upon as romantic, idealistic and that we, somehow, in our age, are connected to. We don't just think this, we feel this. We look upon this as, frankly, somewhat, brotherly connection. We draw strength from it without understanding what was being said by him who wrote the Fall...

How much so like those teetering, small communities post-Western Roman reading their Cicero, their Augustan literature of that day just before the Dark Age are we? Just before Alaric raided Rome...

We, too, read our literature this day and think we are safe. That we are strong.

We all live in a post-Christian era here in the United States, and in all the West for that matter, that is heavily influenced by foreign propaganda (much different from domestic propaganda).

Are we really actually somewhat like the Ottoman Empire, NumbersUsa? And that, I surmise, is the least of a reach that I could get to that those who imbibe of ZH could reach...

And I am not sure that I disagree with them.

I suppose somewhat like the diplomats to the Ottoman's, those top tier leaders of SW Asia sometime ago, who would you propose that we listen to were we to rid ourselves of the Jews?

The high mannered denizens of Wal-Mart in inbreeder Kentucky?

The well read satirists of some manufactured home park in some dusty, desert meth-a-fied California? Or, conversely but the same, some Kalifornia University?

America, some rotting, gas bloated carcass in the plain of History IS to be rid of the scum who have erected supports for the rib-cage while the ass farts out the final out-gassings of Lady Gaga? Of Nancy Pelosis?

Get rid of the Jews?

Are you F'n crazy?

I say free Weinstien. I say make him Governor of California.

Like I seriously care that some female was 'wronged' in that some male wanted to see him shower. Hell, I'd buy the medicine to make sure you don't get pregnant.

I just want the show to go on.

I have a retirement, m-f'rs.

I just want the show to go on.

Prop it up, prop it up...

CRC Failed

 

In reply to by NumbersUsa

AGuy Shillinlikeavillan Sat, 03/17/2018 - 11:20 Permalink

"it boggles my mind how certain individuals are still running around free right at this very moment(obama and hillary come to mind)..."

...And the Trumpet has done nothing to end this mess. In fact Trumpet has upped the stakes: starting when he order the Tomahawk missile attack, and he continues to permit US forces in Syria.

"Our government and justice system is broken, and people don't care as long as it doesn't affect them"

But it did, when Libya fell it caused Oil prices to soar back above $100/bbl. Lets face it. The Western Public bought all of the Western gov't propaganda without so much as even questioning it. We live in George Orwell's 1984 world.

In reply to by Shillinlikeavillan

chiaroscuro Shillinlikeavillan Sun, 03/18/2018 - 10:43 Permalink

I learned a good deal from this article and I’m sure you know a great deal more having studied this war so closely from the beginning. But I find it interesting that this article depicts sharp contrasts between good and evil, light and dark etc. as being overly simplistic and the cause of apathy and illusion. While that's the way these dichotomies are being used in the mainstream media, I would argue that such stark contrasts are precisely what we need more of in this modern morass of endless shades of gray. For certainly, as you allude, there are villains in this play. 

But can an immoral and apathetic populace expect it’s leaders to rise to a higher standard than society itself? Expecting to get another George Washington, Patrick Henry or Robert E. Lee to spontaneously appear at a time like this is a bit like expecting a family of cavemen to produce an Einstein or a Newton. There may be naturally intelligent or philosophical members of the caveman’s tribe but they lack the social and intellectual framework to express their full potential. 

It took thousands of years for Western Civilization to build that framework up and only a few generations to tear it down. We must now build it back up again as if our lives depend upon it, for they do. I think drawing sharp contrasts between good and evil is a reasonable place to start. And these distinctions don’t have to be overly simplistic. In the hands of the right writer, or artist, they can have all the layered complexity and brilliance of a Shakespearean drama or a DaVinci painting. 

In reply to by Shillinlikeavillan

David2923 Schlomo Shekelstein Sat, 03/17/2018 - 04:46 Permalink

More computing on Auschwitz 1940s cremation capabilities compared to modern day system capability. How many modern day cremation systems would be needed to cremate 2880 corpses in a day (1440 minutes in a day) at Auschwitz #2 and #3 crematorium (15 systems in each building) as per Karl Bischoff June 28th 1943 letter. See link: https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab3-german-documents-ovens/ I have the link that states specs for a 2018 cremation system. This system can cremate an average of 1 body per 67.5 minutes. Calculate by 2880 bodies x 67.5 min / 1440 minutes in a day = 135 systems needed to accomplish 2880 bodies. Yet, only 30 sets of 1940s version cremation system are needed. Beginning to see the lie? I have links to back up these data claims available. Ok, my heart is in the right place, I will half the number of the stated 135 units to 67.5 units needed. It is still over twice as many as the 1940s model. “It is easier to fool someone, than it is to convince them they been fooled”….Mark Twain

In reply to by Schlomo Shekelstein