Pat Buchanan Asks "Does The Pope Believe In Hell?"

Authored by Patrick Buchanan via Buchanan.org,

“Pope Declares No Hell?”

So ran the riveting headline on the Drudge Report of Holy Thursday.

Drudge quoted this exchange, published in La Repubblica, between Pope Francis and his atheist friend, journalist Eugenio Scalfari.

Scalfari: “What about bad souls? Where are they punished?”

Bad souls “are not punished,” Pope Francis is quoted, “those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls.”

On the first Holy Thursday, Judas betrayed Christ. And of Judas the Lord said, “Woe to that man by whom the Son of Man shall be betrayed; it were better for him if that man had never been born.”

Did the soul of Judas, and those of the monstrous evildoers of history, “just fade away,” as General MacArthur said of old soldiers? If there is no hell, is not the greatest deterrent to the worst of sins removed?

What did Christ die on the cross to save us from?

If Francis made such a statement, it would be rank heresy.

Had the pope been speaking ex cathedra, as the vicar of Christ on earth, he would be contradicting 2,000 years of Catholic doctrine, rooted in the teachings of Christ himself. He would be calling into question papal infallibility, as defined in 1870 by the Vatican Council of Pius IX.

Questions would arise as to whether Francis is a true pope.

The Vatican swiftly issued a statement saying the pope had had a private conversation, not a formal interview, with his friend Scalfari.

The Vatican added:

“The textual words pronounced by the pope are not quoted. No quotation of the aforementioned article must therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father.”

Sorry, but this will not do. This does not answer the questions the pope raised in his chat. Does hell exist? Are souls that die in mortal sin damned to hell for all eternity? Does the pope accept this belief? Is this still the infallible teaching of the Roman Catholic Church?

However one may applaud Francis’ stance on social justice, on matters of faith and morals he has called defined doctrine into question and created confusion throughout the Church he heads.

In his letter Amoris Laetitia, “The Joy of Love,” the pope seemed to give approval to the receiving of Holy Communion by divorced and remarried Catholics, whose previous marriages had not been annulled, and whom the Church holds to be living in adultery.

Relying on the pope’s letter, German bishops have begun to authorize the distribution of Communion to divorced and remarried couples.

Cardinal Gerhard Muller, former prefect of the Vatican office for the Doctrine of the Faith, the position once held by Pope Benedict XVI, says this contradicts Catholic doctrine as enunciated by Pope John Paul II.

Said Cardinal Muller, “No power in heaven or on earth, neither an angel nor the pope, not a council, nor a law of the bishops has the faculty to change it.”

Four cardinals, including Raymond Burke of the United States, in a formal letter, asked the pope to clarify Amoris Laetitia. The pope did not, nor has he addressed the cardinals’ concerns.

Indeed, when asked early in his papacy about the immorality of homosexuality, the pope parried the question, “Who am I to judge?”

But if not thee, who? Is not the judging of right and wrong part of the job description?

Nor is it only in the realm of doctrine that the pope has sown confusion among the faithful.

To legalize the underground Catholic Church in China, the pope and the Vatican have agreed to ask Catholic bishops to stand aside for bishops approved by the Communist Party that seeks tighter control of Christian faiths.

The Vatican has also agreed to approve the consecration of a bishop named by Beijing, whom Rome previously regarded as illegitimate.

The capitulation is necessary for the Catholic Church in China to survive and prosper, argues the Vatican. But what kind of church will it become, asks retired Archbishop Joseph Zen Ze-kiun of Hong Kong.

The Vatican is “selling out” the Church in China, says the archbishop: “Some say that all the effort to reach an agreement is to avoid the ecclesial schism. How ridiculous! The schism is there, in the Independent Church!”

Archbishop Zen concedes his criticism of the Communist Party and the Vatican’s diplomatic efforts are causing problems in closing the rift between the underground Church and the Communist Party-sanctioned church, but makes no apology: “Am I the major obstacle in the process of reaching a deal between the Vatican and China? If that is a bad deal, I would be more than happy to be the obstacle.”

There is a division inside Catholicism that is widening, between a Third World and traditional church that are growing, and a mainstream Church in Europe and here that is taking on aspects of the Anglican Church of the 20th century.

And how did that turn out, Your Holiness?

Happy Easter!

Comments

Baron von Bud Adolph.H. Fri, 03/30/2018 - 14:19 Permalink

No hell? This is one thing this pope has said that I agree with. No other religion believes in the fire and brimstone crap. I went to Catholic grade school and, yes, I was a troublesome kid and received several beatings by the nuns. The brainwashing was a daily event.

In reply to by Adolph.H.

Janet smeller strannick Fri, 03/30/2018 - 18:13 Permalink

Haha. Yup. It’s my belief in hell that most likely ultimately prevents me from being a vigilante. See? Nobody gets away with ANYTHING. God is merciful BUT He is also Just. And I don’t think his justice is any joke. The pedafiles and such have what’s coming to the in this life or worse in the next. That includes you too, central bankers.

In reply to by strannick

cornflakesdisease Baron von Bud Fri, 03/30/2018 - 17:43 Permalink

Eccl. 9:5: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.”

John 11:11-14: “‘Lazarus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep.’ . . . Jesus said to them outspokenly: ‘Lazarus has died.’”

 

What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?

Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death.”

After one’s death, is he still subject to further punishment for his sins?

Rom. 6:7: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”

 

I guess the Pope started to read the bible.

 

 

In reply to by Baron von Bud

bshirley1968 cornflakesdisease Fri, 03/30/2018 - 18:26 Permalink

Hey, dummy.

You need to understand there is spiritual death and physical death. Everybody dies physically, so what is left if all death in the Bible refers to physical death.

Let me clear it up for you:

Revelation 20:11-14 "20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.20:12 And I saw the dead (those that died without Christ, spiritually dead), small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead (dead in sins) were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (those already in hell) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire (What would your heretical, lying Pope say about this lake?). This is the second death (final resting place of sinners who rejected Christ)."

All parenthetical statements are added by me. I would also suggest reading Luke 16:19-31 and see how what Christ clearly taught smashes your bound-for-hell Pope and anyone who believes like him.

In reply to by cornflakesdisease

Michigander cornflakesdisease Fri, 03/30/2018 - 19:05 Permalink

What did Christ die on the cross to save us from?

If he saw his shadow while on the cross, it means 6 more weeks of winter.

Frigging fairy tales. I can't understand why so many savvy individuals that know government exists merely to control and extort the plebes, can't understand that religion exists for the same reason.

Just like having double filters, ya know? What escapes the first, usually gets caught by the second.

 

Signed,

Got by both filters...

In reply to by cornflakesdisease

Count Cherep cornflakesdisease Sat, 03/31/2018 - 00:18 Permalink

cornflakesdisease: John 11:11-14: “‘Lazarus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep.’ . . . Jesus said to them outspokenly: ‘Lazarus has died.’”

Count Cherep:

Is Lazarus a remake of Osiris?

http://freethoughtnation.com/is-lazarus-a-remake-of-osiris/

 

Parallels suggested between Jesus & Horus

Excerpt:

Linkage between the name of Osirus in Egyptian religion and Lazarus in the Gospel of John: Asar was an alternative name for Osirus, Horus' father. Horus raised Asar from the dead. He was referred to as "the Asar," as a sign of respect. Translated into Hebrew, Asr is "El-Asar." The Romans added the sufffix "us" to indicate a male name, producing "Elasarus." Over time, the "E" was dropped and "s" became "z," producing "Lazarus." Jesus is said to have raised his friend Lazarus from the dead.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5d.htm

In reply to by cornflakesdisease

Count Cherep Baron von Bud Fri, 03/30/2018 - 19:33 Permalink

The question should be, why believe in myths?

Investigating the Pre-Biblical origins of the Holy Bible via Archaeology

Excerpt:

At the ripe old-age of 65 (born 1943) I at last realize that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are _all_ TERRORIST RELIGIONS.  Their source of power and growth IS TERRORISM. All preach love and compassion, but in the end it is their employment of TERRORISM that makes them "great."

The God they all worship is himself A TERRORIST-GOD. This vindictive God allegedly destroyed the world in a flood, AN ACT OF TERROR. He allegedly "gave" Israel Canaan via ACTS OF TERROR (telling Israel to slaughter the Canaanites, man, woman and suckling child). 

Christianity became the religion of the Roman Empire via ACTS OF TERROR sanctioned by the Christian Roman Emperors. Pagans outside the empire were forcibly converted via TERRORISM. Any nation that "aspires to greatness and power in the world" does so THROUGH TERRORISM. 

Read more:

http://www.bibleorigins.net/index.html

Background on the Website's Author: (Bible Origins, cited above)

Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld y de la Torre

Master of Arts in Education (Social Sciences)

Excerpts:

...I titled this site "Bible Origins" because my PRIMARY INTEREST is in determining from an Anthropological viewpoint the Ancient Near Eastern motifs and concepts that existed BEFORE the Hebrews came into being and FROM WHICH they formed their beliefs about God and Man's relationship to him AND HOW THEY TRANSFORMED THESE CONCEPTS.

If I had to choose "one word" to understand the origins of many Hebrew concepts it would have to be the word _INVERSION_. I understand that most, but not all, of the Hebraic concepts regarding the relationship between man and God are INVERSIONS of Mesopotamian concepts. That is to say they INVERT or REVERSE these earlier concepts by 180 degrees, standing them upside down and on their ear.

...

"No one familiar with the mythologies of the primitive, ancient, and Oriental worlds can turn to the Bible without recognizing COUNTERPARTS on every page, TRANSFORMED, however, TO RENDER AN ARGUMENT CONTRARY TO THE OLDER FAITHS. (p. 9. "The Serpent's Bride." Joseph Campbell. The Masks of God: Occidental Mythology. Arkana. New York. Viking Penguin Books. 1964, 1991 reprint)

Read more:

http://www.bibleorigins.net/WebsiteAuthorBackground.html

No More Myths

http://kennysideshow.blogspot.ca/2012/10/no-more-myths.html

 

 

In reply to by Baron von Bud

GUS100CORRINA mpnut Fri, 03/30/2018 - 14:14 Permalink

FACTOID for the DAY regarding HELL.

In the Bible, Jesus Christ talks more about HELL than HEAVEN. in fact, if you have a RED LETTER version of the Bible and you look at only the RED LETTER Bible verses, you will find that 13% of all the RED LETTER verses spoken by Jesus Christ talk about HELL. Think about that fact - 13%!!! That means that Churches need to be preaching about HELL once for every 8 sermons. Are the Churches in America doing this today??? NOT!!!!!!!

Since the Bible's HELL is HOT, DARK and FOREVER. is this really where you want to spend your eternity if indeed the Bible is correct? Think about this POINT as well.

Acts 16:31
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

In reply to by mpnut

Citxmech Baron von Bud Fri, 03/30/2018 - 14:46 Permalink

Actually, this interpretation makes more sense to me than God employing Satan as his official torturer of souls:  You get "saved" by embracing your moral compass thereby you are reunited with God and eternal life - or you reject God, and you cast yourself into the abyss.

Personally, I side more with Alan Watts regarding the nature of divinity - but what the hell do I know...

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdnZiv24fLc)

In reply to by Baron von Bud

Miffed Microbi… August Fri, 03/30/2018 - 17:55 Permalink

Being raised an Anglican, I had the privilege of having read most of C.S. Lewis. I suggest to those who have a revulsion for the Christian faith promulgated today read Mere Christianity, The Problem with Pain and the Abolition of man. Of his allegorical novels, Til We Have Faces is my favorite. The most brilliant understanding of the female mind by a man IMHO, though his wife did help him with it. Watching the path of an intellectual atheist convert to Christianity is quite illuminating. 

 

Miffed 

In reply to by August

Count Cherep Miffed Microbi… Fri, 03/30/2018 - 21:25 Permalink

Dear Miffed,

I have been visiting Zero Hedge for years, and have found your comments to be indicative of a compassionate, intelligent and caring person.

My path has been that of a Christian who has converted to being a skeptic due to my research, such as:

Christianization of the Roman world

The destruction of ancient civilization

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/darkness.html

Crimes of Christianity

http://ftarchives.net/foote/crimes/contents.htm

Victims of the Christian Faith

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am skeptical of all religions and especially the Abrahamic ones.

No More Myths

http://kennysideshow.blogspot.ca/2012/10/no-more-myths.html

Excerpt from my commentary on that site under the screen name No More Myths:

I read the Bible for years, and I used to believe in it, but the more I read the more contradictions, inconsistencies, absurdities and atrocities I found in it. I started reading Bible criticism and it became clear that the Bible is not what it purports to be.

We have been propagandized all of our lives that the Bible is the word of God, and it is difficult for many of us to break free from the Hebrew mindlock.

 

 

 

In reply to by Miffed Microbi…

Miffed Microbi… Count Cherep Sat, 03/31/2018 - 00:32 Permalink

There is nothing wrong with skepticism. Frankly I find it to be most helpful. Blindly following ideology or individuals can be dangerous. Jesus said the Truth will set you free and I have found that Truth is rare to find outside of oneself. Once Truth within is discovered, you can perceive Truth in the world, most of what one will find are lies and inauthenticity.

 

I no longer practice a religion because it had become more of a hindrance to my spiritual development. I don't need training wheels to personally experience God. There is a difference between believing and knowing and I have made that transition. But I have friends who are devout Christians and we get along quite well. Who am I to question them when they get so much from being church members? We all must tread our own personal path.

 

i guess I don't see the need for argument or trying to convince others the Bible is untrue or not the path to salvation. For some, it may be. Others like yourself have determined it to be a detriment. I think it would be better to find something better suited to your spiritual needs. Is knowledge controlling you or are you controlling knowledge? 

 

Miffed 

In reply to by Count Cherep

cornflakesdisease GUS100CORRINA Fri, 03/30/2018 - 17:45 Permalink

The word “hell” is found in many Bible translations. In the same verses other translations read “the grave,” “the world of the dead,” and so forth. Other Bibles simply transliterate the original-language words that are sometimes rendered “hell”; that is, they express them with the letters of our alphabet but leave the words untranslated. What are those words? The Hebrew she’ohl′ and its Greek equivalent hai′des, which refer, not to an individual burial place, but to the common grave of dead mankind; also the Greek ge′en·na, which is used as a symbol of eternal destruction.

“Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.”—The Encyclopedia Americana (1942), Vol. XIV, p. 81.
Translators have allowed their personal beliefs to color their work instead of being consistent in their rendering of the original-language words. For example: (1) The King James Version rendered she’ohl′ as “hell,” “the grave,” and “the pit”; hai′des is therein rendered both “hell” and “grave”; ge′en·na is also translated “hell.” (2) Today’s English Version transliterates hai′des as “Hades” and also renders it as “hell” and “the world of the dead.” But besides rendering “hell” from hai′des it uses that same translation for ge′en·na. (3) The Jerusalem Bible transliterates hai′des six times, but in other passages it translates it as “hell” and as “the underworld.” It also translates ge′en·na as “hell,” as it does hai′des in two instances. Thus the exact meanings of the original-language words have been obscured.

 

In reply to by GUS100CORRINA

SergeA.Storms GUS100CORRINA Sat, 03/31/2018 - 18:07 Permalink

Gus, I usually take your posts in stride, due to their strong, yet narrow passion, but on this you and I agree.  Folks should hedge accordingly.

John 3:16 is not just fire insurance.

Readers of ZH who doubt, I challenge you to read the book The Case for Christ.  If you walk away from that with doubt, we’ll all I can say is one of us is right and I believe it’s me.

 

This Pope is gonna have some splainin’ to do.

In reply to by GUS100CORRINA

GUS100CORRINA Bunker Boy Fri, 03/30/2018 - 14:00 Permalink

Pat Buchanan Asks "Does The Pope Believe In Hell?"

My response: What a topic for GOOD FRIDAY!!

So why did the POPE say make this statement? Could the Catholic Church FALSE DOCTRINE of PURGATORY be involved? 

And GOD SAID ...

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

ZH bloggers ... below is your sermon for the day. Enjoy it if you dare and think solely about the Catholic Church when you read it.

http://www.calvaryencinitas.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/6631-Revelat…

In reply to by Bunker Boy

CalifornianSeven GUS100CORRINA Fri, 03/30/2018 - 15:02 Permalink

Jesus talks about hell in this parable in Luke 16:

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham,have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

In reply to by GUS100CORRINA